and so it begins - GameStop Wants to Sell Used Digital Games

[Omaeka]

don't get me wrong every time this has come up in the last week or two its gets a lot of hot debate, I guess since the ruling a lot of people are unsure how it could work and how it will affect the games industry, I'm not overly worried as at the end of the day the market will just have to adapt.

People will still make games - people will still sell games - there's money in it after all and always will be

The quality of the games could suffer, as could their availability on the PC platform, which is what we are discussing here.

Consoles have to deal with large amounts of preownership, and small amounts of piracy, but survives, but then there is the fact console gaming is extremely accessible to almost anyone.

PC has to deal with large amounts of piracy, and the fact the aspects of the platform that make it worth having over a console, are not easily accessible.

Throw preownship on a large scale into the mix, and you've got yourself a full scale beatdown. That is what we are discussing here, not piracy vs preownership etc.

It's the effects it will have on the market, PC has to deal with too many things as it is without preownership being thrown at it, too.

We already have extremely crazy sales and generally lower prices in our favor, wanting the ability to preown is crazy. People will want to digitally rent games via Steam next.

It just stinks of greed, tbh.

when you used absurd numbers



So either that's 1=1 or your second part of those numbers is wrong. You cant have it both ways. You can't say piracy equals sales. But second hand market never gives money to buy new games.

Again, that was just an example of how piracy can potentially generate a sale, whereas preownership cannot.

Variables = reality. Your argument comes across as so black and white, I'm tempted to insert a picture of an Ostrich with its head in the sand, but I won't.

 

[spoffle]

Again, that was just an example of how piracy can potentially generate a sale, whereas preownership cannot.

Variables = reality. Your argument comes across as so black and white, I'm tempted to insert a picture of an Ostrich with its head in the sand, but I won't.

Of course it can, it could prompt some one to buy the sequel.

 

[Omaeka]

Of course it can, it could prompt some one to buy the sequel.

Or buy the sequel second-hand?

 

[Glaucus]

Again, that was just an example of how piracy can potentially generate a sale, whereas preownership cannot.

Variables = reality. Your argument comes across as so black and white, I'm tempted to insert a picture of an Ostrich with its head in the sand, but I won't.

No it was unrealistic figures on purpose and there you are at it again. You can't have it both ways. Why can't second hand sales generate new sales. I think you'll find in every single market, including of games, it does. It frees up money.

 

[Komedy]

The quality of the games could suffer, as could their availability on the PC platform, which is what we are discussing here.

Nothing to suggest that would be the case - I can point to lots of other "innovations" in the PC world that hold a bigger risk to that - Windows 8 being one of them

Consoles have to deal with large amounts of preownership, and small amounts of piracy, but survives, but then there is the fact console gaming is extremely accessible to almost anyone.

Yet there is no decline in the number of releases or the quality of AAA titles on consoles as a result of 2nd hand sales.

PC has to deal with large amounts of piracy, and the fact the aspects of the platform that make it worth having over a console, are not easily accessible. Throw preownship on a large scale into the mix, and you've got yourself a full scale beatdown. That is what we are discussing here, not piracy vs preownership etc.

So could it be suggested that second hand sales could reduce piracy dramatically

It's the effects it will have on the market, PC has to deal with too many things as it is without preownership being thrown at it, too.

Could it in fact be a blessing and make more games accessible to more people and therefore the platform as a whole.

We already have extremely crazy sales and generally lower prices in our favor, wanting the ability to preown is crazy. People will want to digitally rent games via Steam next.

Onlive already does that as do other services. The Steam sales are successful as they cut prices deep, however many devs understand that this gains sales they may not normally achieve and thus exposure to their franchise, the same is true of a resale.

It just stinks of greed, tbh.

the consumer sets to gain here.

 

[spoffle]

Or buy the sequel second-hand?

Maybe so, but it's still not a case of "cannot".

 

[Moothead2]

the consumer sets to gain here.

I'm assuming he means greed on the part of the middle man, Gamestop in this instance. They're the only one set to gain without a loss. The developer will potentially lose out on sales and the consumer may potentially get lower quality games if any at all.

 

[Omaeka]

1. Nothing to suggest that would be the case - I can point to lots of other "innovations" in the PC world that hold a bigger risk to that - Windows 8 being one of them



2. Yet there is no decline in the number of releases or the quality of AAA titles on consoles as a result of 2nd hand sales.



3. So could it be suggested that second hand sales could reduce piracy dramatically



4. Could it in fact be a blessing and make more games accessible to more people and therefore the platform as a whole.



5. Onlive already does that as do other services. The Steam sales are successful as the cut prices deep, however many devs understand that thsi gains sales they may not normally achieve and thus exposure to their franchise, the same is true of a resale.



6. the consumer sets to gain here.

1. Nothing to suggest it wouldn't be the case. I agree with the Windows 8 thing, but I don't know enough about it to really comment, is a game more demanding via Win8 like how Vista was? If so fair enough, but if a game runs the same on 8, or even better, than 7, I don't really see the issue.

XP was and is supported long after Vista/7 and even 8 came out, 7 is the new XP, besides this is a topic for another day.

2. There is though, almost every sequel to date is more and more dumbed down than the previous, thanks to consoles. Consoles are effecting the PC market themselves, besides shoveling crap onto a pile of crap isn't really going to make it worse, but this is a topic for another day although I do hope nobody in this particular subforum would disagree with it.

3. Maybe, either way is a loss, though.

5. I agree, but sales aren't common, and certainly aren't constant, preownership is. It'll most likely hit a point where buying the preowned routé is similar to having a constant sale. At least sales generate solid revenue.

6. We gain enough as it is.

I'm assuming he means greed on the part of the middle man, Gamestop in this instance. They're the only one set to gain without a loss. The developer will potentially lose out on sales and the consumer may potentially get lower quality games if any at all.

Of course, retailers already gain a profit, developers do not generate £40 from a £40 game sale, a cut goes to the middle man, which is fair enough. It's just that they want even more, regardless of how it effects things outside them, selfish and greedy, sounds like a business.

Don't remember the last time though, that BMW or Audi tried to cripple the motorvehicle market.

 

[Witcher1979]

Yes and no, it has it's own serial key, so you can't use it all at once, like piracy. It would be removed from your computer and the next person gets access. You couldn't both have it.

Pretty easy for Steam to remove the game, other download services might find it a bit harder which allow you to keep downloaded installers etc. I guess that would stop, you would not be able to keep the installer. But even then most games can just be moved around without needing a location in the registry. I can't get my head around how other companies would manage this. The key thing would work for online modes for sure.

 

[Rigsta]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/jul/05/eu-used-digital-games-market

That's all you need to know about the legal position of selling 2nd hand digital games in the EU.

I don't know about the rest of it, but the phrase "The EU judgement places very little value on the concept of the end-user agreement" brought a smile to my face. I despise those things with a passion.

 

[Ampeg]

the consumer sets to gain here.

In the short term yes, the consumer however would have to be extremely short sighted not to see what this would do to PC gaming.

 

[T345]

But how the hell could you say, I'm buying a game that I (download) for cheaper than it is!!!
It's like going to game shop and giving them a code and them giving you money. It will be the same as buying it new but cheaper?

 

[dogmanstaruk]

I'm sure they can write up new contracts with digital outlets, stating they can only sell their games on the premise they do not pre own them. Steam had better stay away from this, last time I checked Valve weren't ****'* like the rest of these places.

Makes no difference. Whatever EULA Steam (for example) make us agree to while either installing Steam or a game doesn't matter. They must now comply with European Law.

This makes the end user legally entitled to sell their digital goods. When you think about it logically this does make sense. It is madness to think that digital software producers/suppliers were in a position to restrict our options with products which we have purchased and therefore own. No other manufacturer/supplier has that legal right.

 

[mushroomsoup]

I've got loads of steam games that I'd like to sell, the sooner this idea is introduced the better. If I buy something, why should I not be able to sell it? It doesn't matter if the maker doesn't make any money from it after i've sold it, its mine. How is this different than anything else that can be sold second hand?

 

[Moothead2]

But how the hell could you say, I'm buying a game that I (download) for cheaper than it is!!!
It's like going to game shop and giving them a code and them giving you money. It will be the same as buying it new but cheaper?

That's the main issue here to be honest, it gives the consumer no reason to buy it 'new' unlike with physical copies where you get a shiny new disc and box. Another issue is that if a shop doesn't have a pre-owned copy of Skyrim then you're forced to buy it new. A digital used games system won't have this problem as a guy from the UK can buy a 'pre-owned' digital copy of Skyrim from some chap in America.

 

[Omaeka]

That's the main issue here to be honest, it gives the consumer no reason to buy it 'new' unlike with physical copies where you get a shiny new disc and box. Another issue is that if a shop doesn't have a pre-owned copy of Skyrim then you're forced to buy it new. A digital used games system won't have this problem as a guy from the UK can buy a 'pre-owned' digital copy of Skyrim from some chap in America.

+1

Preowned is terrible, as I'm sure I've made clear is my opinion at this point.

The ability to forfeit your access to a game for a portional reinbursement, dependant on how old thegame is and other things, would work better. They should either track your gameplay time on whatever site you got it from, or make Steam the only way to PC game, and use the amount of hours you've spent in game as an additional way to calculate the moneyback. This would simulate wear & tear, I guess.

Just some way to combat the 'IVE PLAYED THIS GAME FOR 500 HOURS IN THE LAST DAY RAWR NOW LETS GET MOST OF MY MONEY BACK!' mentality people will develop.

 

[harenzo]

So on the back of the recent EU ruling here we have Gamestop first to stick their heads above the parapet.



Source http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118762-GameStop-Wants-to-Sell-Used-Digital-Games

Green Man Gaming already offers used/trade in on a number of PC digital games, where publishers receive a percentage of the used sale. That's what Gamestop are talking about when they are "looking at technologies in Europe".

It'll be interesting to see how things develop as I know a lot of publishers are be extremely wary of approaching this concept I imagine the catalyst will be a test case in the EU courts to challenge how the majority of digital products are sold with no facility in place to allow resale.

 

[Martini1991]

Green Man Gaming already offers used/trade in on a number of PC digital games, where publishers receive a percentage of the used sale. That's what Gamestop are talking about when they are "looking at technologies in Europe".

It'll be interesting to see how things develop as I know a lot of publishers are be extremely wary of approaching this concept I imagine the catalyst will be a test case in the EU courts to challenge how the majority of digital products are sold with no facility in place to allow resale.

GMG only do it for a limited amount of titles, where those titles aren't one time limitations/Steam works etc.

Can only see this as a bad thing, it's going to lose many sales, people like me get the games in sales, I'll just buy a secondhand copy instead that's the exact same, 2 sales have become 1 sale, = Lost sale.

Lets say I try a game, buy it, don't like it, I'm stuck with it, but someone else who would wait for that game can now buy it off me, 2 sales have turned into 1 sale = Another lost sale.

Think EU should butt out on the second hand stance.
Demo's should be enforced however.

Second hand market is a lost sale, no matter what spin is put on it.

 

[Komedy]

GMG only do it for a limited amount of titles, where those titles aren't one time limitations/Steam works etc.

Can only see this as a bad thing, it's going to lose many sales, people like me get the games in sales, I'll just buy a secondhand copy instead that's the exact same, 2 sales have become 1 sale, = Lost sale.

Lets say I try a game, buy it, don't like it, I'm stuck with it, but someone else who would wait for that game can now buy it off me, 2 sales have turned into 1 sale = Another lost sale.

Think EU should butt out on the second hand stance.
Demo's should be enforced however.

Second hand market is a lost sale, no matter what spin is put on it.

Well what's done is done - we just now await the change

 

[Martini1991]

Well what's done is done - we just now await the change

That's rather defeatist.