Hifi or Headphone amp

soundesciple

soundesciple

soundesciple

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26 Jun 2010
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505
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Hi Guys, at the moment i have an Xonar DS sound, a pair of Gale mini monitor 6ohm speakers, and a pair of Mordaunt short MS 10`s 8ohm speakers, with Denon AH-D1100 Headphones.

Never had a headphone amp before, and all my hifi amps have been for driving big floor-standing speakers

So what i am after is some suggestions as to what to go for amp wise,

Do i go for a Hifi amp or a Headphone amp.

or would i be able to get both for a budget of £200 max.

headphones and speakers get about the same usage.
would like bass/treble controls.
and preferably slimline unit no more than 130mm tall.


Have looked at these up to now.
http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/marantz/pm5004/mara-pm5004-blk

http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/onkyo/a9155/onky-a9155-blk

http://www.richersounds.com/product/dacs/teac/ud-h01/teac-udh01

http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/cambridge-audio/topaz-am10/camb-am10-blk

and

Any other suggestions much appreciated.
 
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Those are very sensitive headphones so don't need amping for power (though amps usually provide many improvements other than plain power), and I would say that spending two (or more) times their price on an amp would be overkill. If I was you I'd order an O2 amp from http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full which will probably cost you around £100 but will perform better than anything costing several times its price (apparently, I haven't heard it).
 
I'd go with one of the amps, people who use dedicated headphone amps tend not to use speakers much if at all. The only advantages to the headphone amp are that it has a small footprint and it uses less power. The hifi amp will be a better choice as it'll allow you to use either speakers or headphones. If there is allowance for it with switches, it may allow you to run all 4 speakers. (best off running them separately if you do this though as they will be run in parallel which presents a 3.5 ohm load which might push a low end amp a bit far as the minimum impedance is usually 4 ohms.)

Personally, i'd go with the marantz out of those options. Don't discount the second hand market though as you can pick up some excellent integrated amps for around that money.
 
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joeyjojo said:
Those are very sensitive headphones so don't need amping for power (though amps usually provide many improvements other than plain power), and I would say that spending two (or more) times their price on an amp would be overkill. If I was you I'd order an O2 amp from http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full which will probably cost you around £100 but will perform better than anything costing several times its price (apparently, I haven't heard it).
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Thanks, ill look up some reviews on that.
 
Kei said:
I'd go with one of the amps, people who use dedicated headphone amps tend not to use speakers much if at all. The only advantages to the headphone amp are that it has a small footprint and it uses less power. The hifi amp will be a better choice as it'll allow you to use either speakers or headphones. If there is allowance for it with switches, it may allow you to run all 4 speakers. (best off running them separately if you do this though as they will be run in parallel which presents a 3.5 ohm load which might push a low end amp a bit far as the minimum impedance is usually 4 ohms.)

Personally, i'd go with the marantz out of those options. Don't discount the second hand market though as you can pick up some excellent integrated amps for around that money.
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I will only be using 1 pair of speakers (Small room) and at low/ish volumes

Also will using the headphone jack in one of the amps give me a boost in audio quality over the sound card like a dedicated headphone amp would?
 
It's hard to say, the headphone out of an integrated amp is usually an extra, not a main feature, so the quality can be totally unrelated to the quality of the rest of the product. I used the headphone out of my CA Azur integrated for a bit, but mainly for convenience as it was on the desk, not hidden on the back of the PC. The SQ is probably better direct from the soundcard tbh, especially with those sensitive headphones where the power isn't needed.

I didn't really explain the O2 but you can find all the info on the guys blog. He's arrogant and argumentative on forums but nobody can deny that the design is technically as good as anything costing several hundred £ +.
 
Yes, using the headphone jack on a good hifi amp should be at least equal to a headphone amp. My luxman amp certainly equals and outclasses the amp built into the essence ST sound card i use. (the headphone amp is used for times when i don't have my integrated with me or it is inconvenient to use it)
 
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I made a minor adjustment to it, as i remembered that my AV receiver headphone output isn't as hot. :D Generally a good hi-fi amp will have the headphones driven off the power-amp with attenuation resistors in series. Lesser amps may have an opamp based system (NJM4556 is very common for this purpose due to its wide operating impedance range), which would easily be outclassed by a dedicated headphone amp.
 
cheers guys well i think i will be looking for an amp as i am quit happy with the sound im getting from the headphones at the moment.

Kei, you mentioned going second hand for an amp, would i just search the net or is there any recommended second hand dealers in the north east (Cleveland)?
 
There is a big list of dealers on the talkaudio forums, you can also try some of the AV forums classified sections, and that auction site can turn up some good deals from time to time, just need to be careful with your choices. (most of my 2nd hand kit has either come from e**y or been rescued from skips) Vintage equipment can be excellent too, but anything nearing 25-30 years old is likely to need some restoration work as the capacitors will be nearing the end of their lifespan. (The electrolyte drys out, the series resistance goes up and the capacitance shifts out of tolerance) Brands to look out for are marantz, pioneer, kenwood, nad, luxman, yamaha, technics, quad, rotel etc. You want to make sure you stick with integrated amplifiers, as power amps require a separate preamp to control the signal level. (and give you a headphone amp)
 
Some are better than others, but no headphone out on an integrated amplifier is going to match a good quality dedicated headphone amp. Integrated amps are designed for speakers first and foremost, and any headphone out is there for convenience. More so with cheaper budget integrated amps. Higher quality amps will have a better headphone out though. Depends on what headphones are being used, and what the headphone amp being compared to is. A good integrated amp will likely have a better headphone out than a cheapish budget headphone amp.
 
As said my luxman has the headphone socket linked directly to the output from the poweramp just before the speaker switches. The signal passes through a single resistor prior to the jack socket, which is designed to attenuate the output. (in my case they are 470ohm 3W metal film resistors) You can't really get a better an output than that, the signal quality received by the headphones will certainly be as good as the signal quality from the speakers. If the resistors were some uber cheap carbon composition or carbon film maybe i'd agree. Wirewound resistors would also have some effect due to their inductance, meaning there would probably be the potential for some loss of HF, but since the outputs pass through an inductor to filter out frequencies above 30-40KHz, i doubt they'd make much difference. My luxman amp has matched or outclassed all headphone amps i've ever listened to.
 
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Kei said:
As said my luxman has the headphone socket linked directly to the output from the poweramp just before the speaker switches. The signal passes through a single resistor prior to the jack socket, which is designed to attenuate the output. (in my case they are 470ohm 3W metal film resistors) You can't really better an output that that, the quality received by the headphones will certainly be as good as the quality from the speakers. If the resistors were some uber cheap carbon composition or carbon film maybe i'd agree. Wirewound resistors would also have some effect due to their inductance, meaning there would probably be the potential for some loss of HF, but since the output passes through an inductor to filter above 30-40KHz, i doubt they'd make much difference. My luxman amp has matched or outclassed all headphone amps i've ever listened to.
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Just wanted to say that I'm glad to see someone with some sense when it comes to audio. There's really nothing special about a headphone amp other than size, unless it has some other features added. You can often get a much better sound than the highest end headphones amps just buy buying some vintage hifi for £50.
 
AbsenceJam said:
Just wanted to say that I'm glad to see someone with some sense when it comes to audio. There's really nothing special about a headphone amp other than size, unless it has some other features added. You can often get a much better sound than the highest end headphones amps just buy buying some vintage hifi for £50.
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Nothing special about headphone amps other than size? :| So the whole reason for people being a separate amp is because it takes up more space on the shelf?

Of course some hifi amps out there will have half decent headphone outputs but others will probably have fairly cheap ones too. I suspect this is the whole reason why there's dedicated equipment available and not just some strange conspiracy to remove cash from our wallets.
 
ok guys so i found a couple of second had amps to ponder over

Marantz PM6003 Intergrated Amplifier £190

arcam 8 INTEGRATED amp £160

any comments on these please as to witch would be the best to go for?
 
soundesciple said:
ok guys so i found a couple of second had amps to ponder over

Marantz PM6003 Intergrated Amplifier £190
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I love my Marantz PM6003. It has quite punchy low-end which works really nicely for movies and music at low volume. Handy when living in a flat :)

However, £190 seems too expensive. I paid ~£120 for mine on eBay and it still had a 1 year warranty left on it.
 
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