Is personal responsibility a thing of the past?

Trifid

Trifid

Trifid

Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2006
Posts
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So this news article was in the local rag today and it has annoyed me no end. Basically some teenagers break into a railway depot, steal some detonators and throw them on a bonfire resulting in a teenager getting blinded by the explosions. But apparently they are not responsible for their actions and someone else is. The only other person I can think of who might be responsible is Darwin?

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:rolleyes:
 
At 15 years of age they are more than capable of being responsible for the results of criminal tresspass (Tresspass on railway property is a criminal, not a civil, offence).
 
I think the article is referring not to the relative responsibility of the teenagers, but the responsibility of the owners of the explosive detonators and the irresponsible way in which they were secured, or not secured as the case may be.

While the teenagers retain a level of responsibility for their own actions, including the Trespass, it is still incumbent on Network Rail to ensure restricted and dangerous materials are properly secured and therein lies the ultimate responsibility that the article refers to.
 
Castiel said:
I think the article is referring not to the relative responsibility of the teenagers, but the responsibility of the owners of the explosive detonators and the irresponsible way in which they were secured, or not secured as the case may be.

While the teenagers retain a level of responsibility for their own actions, including the Trespass, it is still incumbent on Network Rail to ensure restricted and dangerous materials are properly secured and therein lie the ultimate responsibility that the article refers to.
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Rubbish, that might be how it works with todays claim culture but this would not have happened if it were not for the actions of the youths.
 
OldCoals said:
Rubbish, that might be how it works with todays claim culture but this would not have happened if it were not for the actions of the youths.
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It is not rubbish.....as I said the teenagers still have relative responsibility for their personal actions, but that does not negate the responsibility of Network Rail in failing to secure dangerous materials. Teenagers are, by their very nature, liable to do things that in hindsight are irresponsible...this includes trespassing and playing with things that go bang.

As for the logic of "if not for the actions of the youths"....equally if the detonators has been properly secured then it wouldn't have happened either, despite the recklessness of youth....something the managers at Network Rail might want to consider when they investigate their security arrangements.
 
Kamerad said:
Detonators are more dangerous than high explosives due to their instability.
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these aren't normal detonators used for explosives. They're little metal disc, that make a massive bang and aren't designed to do damage.
they are classed as 1.4s
 
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In countries that still use open flame for heating and eating there is a lot of accidents like this. Relatively the uk has a low amount of incidents like this. There was no mention what the detonators are for or why network rail has them? How they were stored and what the trespass entailed?
 
Castiel said:
I think the article is referring not to the relative responsibility of the teenagers, but the responsibility of the owners of the explosive detonators and the irresponsible way in which they were secured, or not secured as the case may be.

While the teenagers retain a level of responsibility for their own actions, including the Trespass, it is still incumbent on Network Rail to ensure restricted and dangerous materials are properly secured and therein lies the ultimate responsibility that the article refers to.
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this really...

someone responsible for keeping firearms would be required to keep them very secure I'd have presumed that industrial explosives/detonators would also be required to be stored securely, accounted for, issued/signed for only by certain authorised people etc...

tis quite obvious that the teenagers were idiots here but someone else at network rail has also screwed up massively
 
Glaucus said:
these aren't normal detonators used for explosives. They're little metal disc, that make a massive bang and aren't designed to do damage.
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They are still dangerous when used incorrectly....particularly if you through an entire box of them on a bonfire.

From what I have read the box was unmarked and unsecured and the site itself was accessible through a broken fence opposite a skate park....something that is the responsibility of Network Rail, so they certainly share some of the responsibility here.
 
OldCoals said:
So Network Rail have to investigate why some kids stole something from them?
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not just 'something' but detonators...

if the story had been Islamic fundamentalists broke in and stole detonators from Rail dept then killed 20 people in London would you also say the same thing in regards to Network Rail's failure to properly secure explosive devices
 
OldCoals said:
So Network Rail have to investigate why some kids stole something from them?
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Network Rail have to investigate why a security fence opposite a children's playground was not repaired for months, why railway detonators were kept in an unmarked box, why that box was not secured and to assess their procedures and security protocols.

The theft itself is a matter for the courts and the teenagers who have been arrested.
 
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dowie said:
not just 'something' but detonators...

if the story had been Islamic fundamentalists broke in and stole detonators from Rail dept then killed 20 people in London would you also say the same thing in regards to Network Rail's failure to properly secure explosive devices
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What on earth are you on about?
 
OldCoals said:
Don't trespass, problem solved.

What next, car thieves suing the owners for injuries acquired when they crash?
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you're being deliberately silly - how is that in any way the same?

explosives and related devices are controlled for good reason - failure to secure them properly is an issue
 
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