Building, not cage.
You dilibratly used cage to make it sound harder. And you couldn't brake a small padlock?
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Is personal responsibility a thing of the past?
- Thread starter Trifid
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Building, not cage.
You dilibratly used cage to make it sound harder. And you couldn't brake a small padlock?
Buildings in rail depots are not generally secured against unauthorised personnel in their entirety....they are accessible to a range of rail personnel not all of whom will have the authority to carry or issue the RFS, thus the most common way of securing them against unauthorised access is security cages, both in buildings and vehicles.
In any case, there is no suggestion that the box(es) were in a locked building, or that the teenagers accessed anything other than the depot grounds.
I used the most common way of securing restricted materials in transport depots......and in the main, ammunition boxes are secured by more than one padlock and that padlock being substantial....if the boxes are easy to obtain and open then Network Rail are clearly not fulfilling their responsibilities as set out in both legislation and their own procedures.
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I see.
You won't find them in cages. There's no need. They'll be in a normal store room or a van in a locked box with a tiny padlock. That's all which is required.
Only if your talking about high class explosives are the boxes and padlocks more substantial.
Only if your talking about high class explosives are the boxes and padlocks more substantial.
The GE/GN8532 regulations state that the RFS should be kept in their original, marked locked boxes and stored in a suitable locked cupboard, store or container that is only used for the purpose of storing explosives and their connected implements. The safe storage of such is required to followed to ensure they comply with the MSER and ensure accurate control and record keeping arrangements.
This doesn't mean putting them in a box with as small a padlock as possible and shoving them on some random shelf in a building accessible to any number of Network Rail personnel on a daily basis.
The same with vehicles, The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2004 requires that they are carried and stored in a cargo container or locker as part of a separate load compartment and while you can get away with putting the original sealed package in the boot of a car (or back of a van) inside of a padlocked steel box, you cannot store it there if you are not in attendance unless the vehicle is secure and the box is mounted securely onto the cargo compartment or locker. The later being synonymous with security cage.
If what you say is actually happening then Network Rail are responsible for not securing dangerous materials securely and safely.
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I wonder if a public network would be so careless.
Network Rail technically is a public network.
Network Rail is effectively a State-Owned company and is treated as such by the NAO and Statistics Commission.
Man of Honour
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I don't think personal responsibility is a thing of the past but stupidity and utter lack of common sense is certainly alive and kicking.
It's a proper issued box that fits the standards. All rsilway staff are trained so that's not an issue. As stated before it needs to be in a suitable locked box and in a building that people don't have acess. That's all, 1.4s is not super secure by law.
No one said anything about super-secure and not ALL network rail staff will be authorised or trained in the use of and storage of RFS...and simply putting the boxes in a building is not enough as that doesn't comply with MSER requirements on the storage of explosives, particularly with the requirements of separation.....if the building is dedicated entirely to the storage and security of explosives, namely RFS then fine, however it would be impractical to dedicate an entire building to a single material type.
Anyway, details of what the regulations require aside, if the boys were able to access RFS in the way they claim and if the ordinance was not secured properly (and unmarked boxes in open skips is not secure) then Network Rail are negligent, immaterial of whether the boys broke the law or not.
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How reliable - the claims of two theives, who have a vested interest in making it sound like they did as little breaking and entering as possible.
'Boys' make them sound like fun-loving children rather than the 17 year old men they really were.
anyone with a pts, will have training to handle it, which is everyone as its part of the most basic equipment, which everyone has to have access to.
And agree with second part, as I said it would be an epic mess up, especially that qauntity.
Soldato
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Are you surprised this type of lack of responsibility is the product of the Labour governments nanny state.
[TW]Fox;22563375 said:
They are boys, one was 15 two were 17....they are juveniles who were skating about in a skatepark who recklessly decided to mess about with a bonfire and trespassed on a Rail depot......There is nothing in any of the reports that suggests that these boys, teenagers, young men or however you want to refer to them obtained the RFS by breaking into a secured Railway Building and stole secured explosives like the career criminals you seem to think they are.
Regardless of the responsibilty for their own actions that these boys have, and they have been arrested and charged for it as they should, Network Rail still have a responsibility to ensure their premises and the dangerous materials within are secured and cannot easily be accessible to anyone, let alone three minors being irresponsible as (insert title of choice here) of that age invariably are. Network Rail have a duty of care, particularly when their facilities are in close proximity to places that carry an increased risk evaluation, such as a park where young children/ teenagers frequent.
To be honest the 15 year olds Parents (and to some extent the 17s as well) should bare some responsibility for allowing their children out at almost 11pm with no supervision or idea of what they are doing.
There is plenty of blame to go around, and I am not abrogating anyone of their relative share of it....If Network Rail failed in their obligations and duty of care then they should be held accountable for that, that doesn't abrogate the kids responsibilty for their actions or negate any punishment they should recieve for their part in breaking the law.
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And where did the information about them being found in a skip come from, ah right that'll be from the kids that stole them in the first place. They're hardly going to drop themselves further in it by saying they broke into a secure building.
To think otherwise requires levels of naivety normally not possible.
Not entirely true, not all NR staff are required to hold a PTS and not all PTS holders are COSS and therefore not all are responsible for ensuring the storage, allocation and access to RFS.
http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...nt/Railway Group Standards/GERT8067 Iss 1.pdf
And there was me thinking it was the Whigs who were to blame - Lord Ashley “the morals of the children are tenfold worse than formerly”.
Neither the BTP or NR have stated that the kids obtained the RFS from a secured building or disputed that they found them in the depot.....they have been arrested on suspicion of theft not with burglary or breaking and entering or that the kids went into the depot armed with a substantial set of bolt croppers and other tools they would have needed to access properly secured explosives, however innocuous they may be in normal circumstances.
http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2012-08-13/boy-blinded-by-detonator-explosion/
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