When you sit your PTS you told about the use of detonator protection only,but only trained to use them when you sit your lookout/site warden or COSS competencies.
Is personal responsibility a thing of the past?
- Thread starter Trifid
- Start date
When you sit your PTS you told about the use of detonator protection only,but only trained to use them when you sit your lookout/site warden or COSS competencies.
Precisely.
the things are left unattended on rail tracks when in use so not sure why you'd expect top security when stored?
Caporegime
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How do you know the kid wouldn't have been hurt or blinded, if they were locked up, they may have broken in, if security stopped them, they may get caught on the tracks, electrocuted, hit by a train. They may have decided to break in elsewhere, go online read how to make explosives and do it in the back garden and still blind themselves, get a knife at home and stab each other, etc, etc.
No, security is to help stop stupid people hurting themselves, the responsibility is ALWAYS with the person who commits the action no matter what retarded society rules try to teach people lately. If every explosive device in the country was left on street corners, unlocked with lables saying they make cool explosions..... if kids don't throw them into fires nothing would happen.
It doesn't matter what something is or how dangerous it is, if people are entirely too stupid to be responsible for their own safety they will get hurt eventually no matter the precautions the rest of the planet takes.
Those kids could have thrown aerosol cans into a fire and been blinded.
This is almost as ridiculous as the kids who decided to cross a train crossing when the barriers were down because they were too stupid to wait and somehow the train company was found responsible.
Who is responsible when a kid CHOOSES to walk into traffic, the kid of the fact that every car hasn't had its engine removed to prevent the danger?
You mean pure office staff which are in offices and don't have access.
Not sure what that standards has to do with anything. Perhaps look at the correct standards. You don't need to be a coss to drive a van, driver is responsible for the detonators.
Network rail or other groups don't even need a license. You can store upto 600 detonators per site for the purpose of the rail way with out a license.
No, I mean a whole range of NR staff, contractors and rail company staff that have access to rail depots.
It isn't about handling the RFS, it is about storing them and accounting for them when they are not in daily use....and if these were not secured as the RGS, MSER and CDUTPE state (and if they found them in an unmarked box in a waste skip then that is in contravention of a raft of regulations including the disposal of explosives laws) then Network Rail have been negligent. Whether they require a licence to store them is immaterial to their responsibilty to follow the regulations in storing, accounting and disposing of them.
You can bang on about this all night, but it will not make you right.
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None of which abrogates Network Rail if they are found to have not followed the correct procedures in storing or disposing of explosive material. Just because one person is responsible for the outcome, doesn't negate someone's else responsibilty for the conditions that led to that outcome.
It amazes me that people seem to think that the kids personal responsibilty for their actions and the theft, somehow means that Network Rail are not responsible for the correct storage of their equipment. Regardless of whether someone was hurt or not, NR are still responsible for not properly securing their site and the equipment on that site if that turns out to be the case. The principle is the same if you own a firearm and do not secure it properly and in accordance with the law, if a 15 year old kids shoots himself then he is, in his stupidity, responsible for that...however the guy owner is also responsible for not securing the weapon correctly, one mistake doesn't abrogate the other.
In this case the kids themselves will no doubt be charged and prosecuted with Theft and Trespass, and depending on what the investigation concludes, Network Rail may well be held accountable for their own mistakes, including not properly securing the site and the improper disposal of regulated materials.
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Common sense says it does when the victim is also the offender.
Common sense would suggest that Network Rail are responsible for the correct storage and disposal of regulated materials as well as ensuring their sites are secure. The kids are responsible for their actions, not the actions (or rather inaction) of Network Rail.
Right, so if the kids didn't do what they did the Network Rail part becomes irrelevent.
No it doesn't.
Network Rail are responsible for securing their sites and the regulated materials on those sites according to the law regardless of whether the kids did what they did or not...it is simply tragic that something like this has happened to highlight their failures...if indeed it turns out that the details given to the BTP are correct.
Just because a bunch of kids were irresponsible (as kids often are) doesn't exonerate any failures on Network Rails part regarding their own obligations.
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We will agree to disagree.
Fine, but I find it odd that you think the kids responsiblity for their own actions exonerates Network Rails failure to abide by regulations with regard to their own legal responsibilty. (If it turns out they were not secured properly)
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
The voice of reason.
its the way things are now.
my parents are having a new kitchen fitted with a new stove,hob and extraction unit. its a rented local authority house.
yesterday i had a go at the guy in charge of the builders about whats going on with the cooker because they haven't had one now for 2 days. his response was to blame the shop they bought them from, and then to blame indecit for changing models. when i suggested they should have waited to get the cookers in before ripping kitchens out his exact words were "you know that and i know that", i asked why they didn't do it and he then went on to blame the two company's again. even though he measured up and ordered everything.
it just shows no matter level people are at nowadays it is very rare you will find someone who will raise there hand and say its there fault.
my parents are having a new kitchen fitted with a new stove,hob and extraction unit. its a rented local authority house.
yesterday i had a go at the guy in charge of the builders about whats going on with the cooker because they haven't had one now for 2 days. his response was to blame the shop they bought them from, and then to blame indecit for changing models. when i suggested they should have waited to get the cookers in before ripping kitchens out his exact words were "you know that and i know that", i asked why they didn't do it and he then went on to blame the two company's again. even though he measured up and ordered everything.
it just shows no matter level people are at nowadays it is very rare you will find someone who will raise there hand and say its there fault.
Soldato
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Passing the Buck(tm). Humanity's favourite pastime since Ug accidentally killed Oog with a spear in the neck.