670 or 7950?

[MyBrainz]

I bet you get wicked kill rates on second life if you are chatting on BF3... oh no, hang on...

p.s. roflmao at chatting to "friends" on "second life"
do you all not just have yahoo/msn/facebook/telephone/legs/car/pub?

"increasingly as I go through life I say things purely for my own amusement... "

Glad i read your sig

 

[spoffle]

They don't beat a 670 max clocked.

Looks like a fair amount of people have just proven you wrong.

You can see this in the Heaven and 3D Mark 11 threads.

Oh right! I completely forgot we all played Heaven and 3D Mark 2011.

Oh and the extra VRAM won't do anything for its longevity unless you play with badly optimised mods on Skyrim.

Badly optimised? Is that because it eats all the RAM up of your graphics card? Oh lawd.

 

[nitram100]

Wow, thanks for the input guys!

Does this change things a bit ?

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432490

I'm willing to spend up to around £285, which will bag me an MSI 670 from another site. But damn, that HIS Iceq is some deal at 240.

Guess I just don't want to be sat here in 2 years time thinking that I should have just spent that extra 40-50 quid.

I don't want to mess with volts and to be honest don't really want to overclock either.

 

[spoffle]

£240 is very good value for money. As for overclocking, there's nothing to it. Dead simple. 670s auto overclock themselves, and 7950s have a load of room for overclocking, which is exactly why AMD has released that new BIOS. At £240, I would say it's a no brainer.

 

[nitram100]

£240 is very good value for money. As for overclocking, there's nothing to it. Dead simple. 670s auto overclock themselves, and 7950s have a load of room for overclocking, which is exactly why AMD has released that new BIOS. At £240, I would say it's a no brainer.

So a stock 670 vs a stock 7950 isn't really a fair match as the 670 is kind of overclocking on the fly?

Is that correct mate ?

 

[Katsumoto]

At the current prices I don't know why you're all comparing 670's to 7950's in stock verses stock match-ups.

The 670's are in the price range of the 7970's, and I do believe the 7970 does beat the 670 in most things (of course there are a fair few exceptions).

If you're willing to spend the money, get a 7970. If you aren't, get a 7950. 670's were the best for price at one point but they seem to have inflated into the £3-400 mark and in my opinion priced themselves out of the market (aka slap bang on 7970 territory).

 

[spoffle]

So a stock 670 vs a stock 7950 isn't really a fair match as the 670 is kind of overclocking on the fly?

Is that correct mate ?

That's the gist of it yeah. It's pointless to compare a stock 7950 to a 670 because all 670s will ramp up to an undetermined speed. You will get some people who will insist it is fair because it's "stock" and "supposed" to be like that, but it seems they've got something else to prove. *cough*like synthetic benchmarks being representative of games*cough*.

Sensible people see it for what it is, an auto dynamic overclock, and take it as such. It's a very good idea of course, which is why AMD are implementing it too. There's no real reason to run a 7950 at stock anyway, since it's got a fair amount of head room available, it'd be a waste to do so.

 

[psychodil]

If you don't want to over clock or mess with voltage the 670 is your best bet. Its performance out of the box is a good bit better than a 7950. 7950 is only better value if you over clock.

 

[Gregster]

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432745

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432682

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432707

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432626

And this is why I stay with Nvidia. These are just from the first 2 pages and plenty more can be found.

I am not saying Nvidia are problem free (from my gaming experience they are) but it sure seems a safer way to go when you have to play the driver lottery for success with AMD.

 

[Rusty0611]

Looks like a fair amount of people have just proven you wrong.

Did they? I saw the complete opposite.

Oh right! I completely forgot we all played Heaven and 3D Mark 2011.

You can extrapolate the results to create a hierarchy based on what you're seeing. I agree they're a little pointless, but for this purpose they are useful.

Badly optimised? Is that because it eats all the RAM up of your graphics card? Oh lawd.

Nope. They're just badly optimised. This is the general consensus. If you can run them great. If not then turn them off. You can run enough mods to make the game look beautiful without having to stack it up and hit a 2GB VRAM limit. If you want to get a 7950 over a 670 to play Skyrim modded for large periods of time, then yes, this is a valid consideration.

That's the gist of it yeah. It's pointless to compare a stock 7950 to a 670

It's not. It's comparing out of the box speed which is why all reviews start on this basis and then overclock the card.

*cough*like synthetic benchmarks being representative of games*cough*.

As above.

I've obviously upset you somewhere by consistently rendering your points obsolete and will continue to do so while you continue to post nonsense .

If you don't want to over clock or mess with voltage the 670 is your best bet. Its performance out of the box is a good bit better than a 7950. 7950 is only better value if you over clock.

Indeed. The 7950 now (like the 7850 in a way) has superb value for money if you want to overclock it. This is where the value for money lies at the "top end" of the market. Under water, they could really fly.

It's a shame that people like spoffle are purposefully argumentative and fail to see the points made for the AMD side of things and insist on pointing out the negative things said against them. He sees a comment against AMD, his back goes up and literally sees red. Reasoned debate eludes him and it seems that anyone who disagrees him is on the end snide comments.

 

[Davedree]

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432745

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432682

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432707

[COLOR="Red"]http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18432626[/COLOR]And this is why I stay with Nvidia. These are just from the first 2 pages and plenty more can be found.

I am not saying Nvidia are problem free (from my gaming experience they are) but it sure seems a safer way to go when you have to play the driver lottery for success with AMD.

Voltage or memory clocked too high, Not driver related

 

[Gregster]

Voltage or memory clocked too high, Not driver related

Jump in and tell them to turn down the clocks that they have on stock then...Problem solved

 

[Katsumoto]

Look:

670/7970 are in direct competition as they are in the same price point.
If you want to argue value for money then there are other cards in sli/crossfire configuration to consider also

The 670 is the better card out of the 670 and 7950. Better drivers, better out of the box. The 7950 hits a value for money sweet spot if willing to overclock it. Being a good £60 cheaper at the moment from OCUK with that £240 deal than the cheapest 670 it's a worthy consideration.

It does amaze me at these prices the 7970 is totally ignored though :S

 

[Davedree]

Roger gregster

 

[spoffle]

Did they? I saw the complete opposite.

Riiiighht

As the 670 has auto boost/auto overclocking built in and is close to the limits(in comparison with a 7950's oc headroom then maybe so, but not the 79's):

^

That's with a very conservative overclock-it's not a 7950 v's 670 comparison but a 7950 overclocking benefit.

The only way overclocking a gpu could invalidate your waranty would be if you informed them, there is no way to tell if you have/not through software overclocking.

Eh? Show me a 670 that can overclock to the same percentage as a 7950
A Max over clocked 7950 is within 5% of a Max overclocked 670, give or take.
(3dmark11 excluded)

I'll start with my Vantage score on a not so heavily overclocked (1105/1625) Sapphire 7950 on stock volts using the latest Beta 12.8 drivers.

Score
P36632 3DMarks

Graphics Score
37876
CPU Score
33345

As were all comparing Guru3D reviews i ask u to compare the GPU scores on the same review posted earlier in this thread.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-radeon-hd-7950-iceq-turbo-review/14

Oh look my 7950 beats all but the GTX 690 on the GPU score.

I'm no fanboy.. just stating what an easy overclock on a 7950 can do.

Btw heres my 3DMark11 Scores..

Score
P9771 3DMarks

Graphics Score
9573
Physics Score
11263
Combined Score
9368

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4100693

And i score 1928 in Heaven Bench.

I dont know why ppl are making it look like the 670 is so much better than a 7950. At the end of the day a 7950 can play pretty much most games maxed without a problem and i guess the same goes for the 670.

It's down to how much u wana spend and what u can do with the savings u make. The £60 saving which is talked about would go on a Zalman water cooler for my i7 if it was me buying here.

Funny thing about Guru3D is that they do reviews for AMD cards and then never review again with later and much better drivers so they just make AMD cards look pretty awful when Nvidia release their cards 4-6 months down the road. Dont be fooled by Guru's reviews using old drivers and never updating their scores.. find a reviewer that actually keeps up with newer driver releases and partly make decisions from those updated reviewers.

Anyway thats my 50 pence worth added

Edit.. just another pennies worth.. i ran the same bench in BF3 as they do on guru3D with these drivers and my average fps with fraps was around 58fps.. Guru's average is 44.. go figure?

[/COLOR]
The reality is thers two different types of 670, a 670 and a 670 using a 680 pcb!Something that no-one has mentioned on this thread yet! The 670 is plenty fast enough i agree but thats only because it was clocked with an inch of its life from the factory first, And really how old are you to say overclocking is only to boost epeen, its proven by the benches that with core/memory frequency increases the 7950 gains performance. My opinion is similar to a few others on here either card will do the job, depending on what games you currently play should help determine which direction you take.

No mate Epeen by defintion would be your computer sig.

You can extrapolate the results to create a hierarchy based on what you're seeing. I agree they're a little pointless, but for this purpose they are useful.

Graphics bench marks just illustrate how that card performs on that bench mark. It's not really representative of games performance. At most, it can be used to assess if your card is performing in the region it should be.

Nope. They're just badly optimised. This is the general consensus. If you can run them great. If not then turn them off. You can run enough mods to make the game look beautiful without having to stack it up and hit a 2GB VRAM limit. If you want to get a 7950 over a 670 to play Skyrim modded for large periods of time, then yes, this is a valid consideration.

Okay!

It's not. It's comparing out of the box speed which is why all reviews start on this basis and then overclock the card.

Which is pointless, since the 670s autoclock up to an undetermined speed, they are gaining an auto overclcok. Reviews will then overclock because it's reasonable to expect most people buying a high end card would overclock. "Out of box performance" doesn't matter much when the cards have so much safe overclocking head room.

I've obviously upset you somewhere by consistently rendering your points obsolete and will continue to do so while you continue to post nonsense .

Hahahaha don't flatter yourself. Talking rubbish and being stubborn over it isn't the same as rendering something obsolete, but if it makes you happy, carry on thinking that.

It's a shame that people like spoffle are purposefully argumentative and fail to see the points made for the AMD side of things and insist on pointing out the negative things said against them.

Right, right, so it's got nothing to do with you spreading misinformation.

He sees a comment against AMD, his back goes up and literally sees red.

Ah haha hahaha *points* literally? You know what that means, right?

Reasoned debate eludes him and it seems that anyone who disagrees him is on the end snide comments.

Okay bro! I don't think you know what reasoned debate is.

 

[Rusty0611]

Point proven . All of my points still stand. You haven't succeeded in countering any of my points just more eccentric rhetoric. You aren't adding anything to this discussion.

The Vantage score you linked is laughable as the users 7950 is overclocked and the 670 is at stock. At least check it before you link as you've just made yourself look ridiculous. The evidence you've used to "prove me wrong" is actually doing what you're saying is invalid. (overclocked versus not). So, no, I was right.

Misinformation - no. I see you ignored the other posts which say the opposite and focused on one where the evidence is not valid as above.

D'oh!

 

[spoffle]

Point proven . All of my points still stand. You haven't succeeded in countering any of my points just more eccentric rhetoric. You aren't adding anything to this discussion.

You don't really have a point, or at least don't really know what your point is. It's like the whole drivers claim you tried to make, which was of course utter nonsense. You couldn't back it up or support your claims outside of selectively picking out examples of some one having a problem with their card, ignoring the fact that plenty of people have problems with nVidia cards for similar reasons. As I said that time, you can only use those examples validly if you also take the nVidia examples too, which rendered your whole claim moot.

The Vantage score you linked is laughable as the users 7950 is overclocked and the 670 is at stock. At least check it before you link as you've just made yourself look ridiculous. The evidence you've used to "prove me wrong" is actually doing what you're saying is invalid. (overclocked versus not). So, no, I was right.

Right, right. It wasn't just vantage scores, it was a whole post. Maybe you should refrain from selective reading and using that as a basis for claiming it makes me look ridiculous, as, you know, it kinda makes you look ridiculous...

Misinformation - no. I see you ignored the other posts which say the opposite and focused on one where the evidence is not valid as above.

D'oh!

So you've said some things that aren't classed as misinformation, does that completely invalidate the things you've said that aren't true? No I didn't think so.

Interestingly enough, you're the one who's actually making the issue about AMD here. If you continue to talk rubbish about the same subject constantly, some one's gonna call you out on it. The fact that you're constantly talking rubbish about AMD is why you're constantly being called out on talking smack about AMD. If you were talking smack about nVidia, I'd do the same, the difference is you don't talk smack about nVidia and like to ignore any issues people have with nVidia related things.

 

[Rusty0611]

The post that you've quoted is no more relevant then any of the other ones I could quote which say the 670 is clearly faster. I referred to the vantage score as it was a) in bold and b) the only source of real evidence.

No matter how many times you say the opposite it remains true. I don't know why you've jumped on my comment which pointed out the 670 was faster when there was a whole load afterwards saying the same. Some kind of obsession perhaps??

Regarding the driver thing, see gregsters post: but I guess they're all users who haven't got a clue how to install a driver right? How about you go on there and them ratherJ than bickering at me as you're such an expert with AMD drivers. Of course you won't.

I'm sorry where did I make an issue of AMD here? I've said that the 7950 is slower and cheaper then 670 which is true. I don't see any slaying of AMD here like you're saying?? If you care to dig through my post history you'll find a fair few nVidia comments which are far from complimentary. The stuttering issue/surround set up issues to name but a few. SLI disabling/enabling. I'm vocal about them you just haven't seen them.

You're becoming incoherent now? Stop dragging your petty grievances into every thread where I disagree with you and move on.

 

[MyBrainz]

Well even the MSI GeForce GTX 670 Power edition with a core clock of 1019 only manages a GPU score of 32275 in Vantage here on Guru3D..

http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-geforce-gtx-670-power-edition-oc-review/15

I guess upping that core clock to 1105 like my 7950 was at really isnt gona gain it another 5600 points to match my 37876 GPU Score..

http://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/4228621

Oh well.. guess i'm gona quit reading this thread as its getting all silly and stubborn

Before i go heres Guru3D overclocking that MSI GeForce GTX 670 Power edition (1300/7012) to get P9875 in 3DMark11

http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-geforce-gtx-670-power-edition-oc-review/24

I got P9771 and was nowhere near 1300 on the core..

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4100693

I suppose my CPU overclock made up for that.

I'm out.. peace!

 

[Rusty0611]

^ can't compare like for like clock speeds. Doesn't work like that.

Also don't know how they only managed 9875 when oc'd to 1300 when a few people here have got 10k with far less