Is Microsoft about to make the biggest mistake ever with windows8?

[theheyes]

all that space and they still can't fit entire program names in the tiles. And no, it doesn't let you move the InfoPath tile to below MS Access

The RTM version handles the text and icons differently. The text is smaller, and so usually displayed in full.

 

[james.miller]

Let's see, it hasn't been released yet. Many programs, will get metro style icons. No, not every program needs live tiles. Never said they did. Some will be though. Emails, weather etc. will massively benefit from live tiles.

I'd argue that the majority don't and this is really an issue for me. I have jump lists for my most frequently used apps, where does this leave the start menu? my old start meanu was a text list of all the the less frequently used apps. Now they are all forced on to the metro interface. with big, non-live tiles, and names that get truncated. That isnt in any way efficient. the other applications that other stuff you mention, weather, emails ect are not what i'm talking about here. Lets start with the programs shown in my screenshot. How would you improve that?

And how is that any more wasted space than a traditional desktop? Where over 90% is empty space(all that wasted space )? It isn't.

I never mentioned the desktop so forget that. This is old start menu vs metro menu, here.

Why would you want names and icon. I would rather delete the name and ujst have the icon..

I dont - i want names. Why would i want icon that i then have to go and remember. What happens when one program has a number of startable applications that use the same icon? No, i want names.

That's also a very bad way to oreorganize stuff, anyway.

There isnt a better way that i can see, but you can blame microsoft for that - that's the way they programs get installed.

Get rid of groups. Radiatout from the bottom left with most used programs first. On the outer fringes have live times which don't need interaction like weather, or other apps that display data that you never or hardly ever need to go I to.

I would rather NOT organise my entire metro menu in a single mass of tiles with truncated names, thank you. It's bad enough as it is.

 

[413x]

That's fine if everything had live tiles. Quite why most programs would need a live tile I don't know, and for those that don't, it isn't an efficient use of space at all.

all that space and they still can't fit entire program names in the tiles. And no, it doesn't let you move the InfoPath tile to below MS Access

Is this what it looks like? That is really not good

 

[Glaucus]

I've told you how to improve it. Start from bottom left corner and radiate out, most used to least used.

THe old start menu is rubbish. How is it any good going through list after sub list.


Things like emails are things you should be thinking off, you can't concentrate on just one area, you have to look at it, as a whole. On a whole it is a much better system. Granted with a few annoyances, but all systems have annoyances.

Seems you have an over dependencie on start menu which most people don't. See Microsoft stats.
Pin stuff to taskbar and use the jump list.

 

[james.miller]

The RTM version handles the text and icons differently. The text is smaller, and so usually displayed in full.

does this work for long file names? have you get a screenshot? If i could have full length names, that would be something.

Just to make my stance clear, i love the improvements made to the desktop environment and windows 8 will be a day one purchase for my on that basis. However this does not mean i have to approve of this start menu and the we we are expected to use it.

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Pin stuff to taskbar and use the jump list.

I'll address this first by quoting what i said in my last post.

my old start menu was a text list of all the the less frequently used apps. Now they are all forced on to the metro interface. with big, non-live tiles, and names that get truncated. That isnt in any way efficient

So that must mean my frequently used applications are on the taskbar, which they are. Along with some jump lists....

Now, there may well be guide out there telling use how we should be arranging tiles from bottom left to top right, but that's only useful if people think or work in that way. Most people will be wanting to arrange tiles in groups. This isnt debatable - I'm sure the option to do so wouldnt even be there if that wasn't the case, considering how much effort MS have put in to making the metro environment more efficient to launch apps. I'm sure MS wouldn't use grouped tiles in any of their metro images and promotional material if that were the case. No, I will not change my mind on this - one large group of tiles is not the most efficient way to do things, however the tiles are arranged within that group. In fact, unless this has changed, its a pain arranging tiles from the bottom left out as the tiles are sequenced from the top left down, no the bottom left up. This means placing any tile about the bottom most tile in a column will shift that bottom tile out to the next column. Slightly frustrating...

As far as the old start menu goes, it wasn't rubbish. yes you can have needless amounts of menus and sub menus, much like you can have needless groups of tiles in metro, however I managed just fine with 2 or 3 submenus max. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a text menu for infrequently used programs. There is nothing wrong with using metro for apps with live tiles and the odd non-live tile, either. It's a shame people are given the choice to continue using the old start menu.

Things like emails are things you should be thinking off, you can't concentrate on just one area, you have to look at it, as a whole.

which I do. Not sure about email though, i use it every session so it sits on my taskbar. I don't need a live tile for it so that's it off the metro menu. In fact there's little i would need a live tile for.

Seems you have an over dependencie on start menu which most people don't. See Microsoft stats.

I'd really love to know how you came to that conclusion?

 

[Sin_Chase]

Grrr it has desktop, it has a taskbar. So nothing's really changed. All you have now is a full screen start screen, with live titles so can see instant information without opening software.

I do not want Microsoft dictating what I use my screen real estate for. I certainly do not want gash live tiles when I have my own fully featured, far more powerful, far more informational system using desktop space far more efficiently.

They can do what they want with Metro, I will never use it though.

 

[james.miller]

anybody with RTM, are you able to arrange the tiles from the bottom left out? I cant do it with consumer preview and metro insists on doing crazy things like this:

I cant put tiles in that red square. metro forces them to the top. Can somebody with RTM confirm this?

 

[djkav]

I do not want Microsoft dictating what I use my screen real estate for. I certainly do not want gash live tiles when I have my own fully featured, far more powerful, far more informational system using desktop space far more efficiently.

They can do what they want with Metro, I will never use it though.

Well thats a contradiction:

"I do not want Microsoft dictating what I use my screen real estate for. I certainly do not want gash live tiles" - which is pretty much Metro

"They can do what they want with Metro" - As above, you say they can't.

All in all, the desktop space is yours to do as you please. I hardly use Metro.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Well thats a contradiction:

"I do not want Microsoft dictating what I use my screen real estate for. I certainly do not want gash live tiles" - which is pretty much Metro

"They can do what they want with Metro" - As above, you say they can't.

All in all, the desktop space is yours to do as you please. I hardly use Metro.

It's not a contradiction at all. Metro is gash, they can do what they want to it, does not mean I will use it.

 

[theheyes]

anybody with RTM, are you able to arrange the tiles from the bottom left out? I cant do it with consumer preview and metro insists on doing crazy things like this:

I cant put tiles in that red square. metro forces them to the top. Can somebody with RTM confirm this?

No, you can't. In regards to the tiles the text is smaller and seems to be limited to two lines. Really long file names will still be truncated.

 

[james.miller]

No, you can't. In regards to the tiles the text is smaller and seems to be limited to two lines. Really long file names will still be truncated.

ok, thanks for that. It makes me wonder how you are supposed to arrange tiles from the bottom left out, then, given that you cant place tiles at the bottom of the screen. It also makes me wonder if Glaucus has actually tried that himself as he seems to be convinced it's doable.

 

[Mana]

lol i just read this thread, pretty sure Glaucus is trolling everyone with his over the top MS fan boy remarks.

Great troll

 

[Glaucus]

ok, thanks for that. It makes me wonder how you are supposed to arrange tiles from the bottom left out, then, given that you cant place tiles at the bottom of the screen. IT also makes me wonder if Glaucus has actually tried that himself as he seems to be convinced it's doable.

How did I know you would say that. Would help if you read posts.

The one thing I do dislike on metro and haven't looked to see if there's a cure. Is you can't place stuff exactly where you want. As you take an app out it squish all back together. If you know what I mean. On Ios it does this be default but. You can. Then do it again and it won't auto collapse back together.

how do you achieve it, by placing less used software at the top.

 

[mmj_uk]

My opinion of it is that it would have been dead easy to just have an option during install of whether you want the classic UI or the horrible new tablet orientated one, instead Microsoft have not only opted to make the new UI mandatory but are actively preventing mods that circumvent it.

Windows 7 for me when gaming and I might try to convert to Linux since most distros have a better UI now.

 

[james.miller]

How did I know you would say that. Would help if you read posts.

What, like you do? i think you should take that wonderful suggestion and go try it yourself.

 

[Glaucus]

My opinion of it is that it would have been dead easy to just have an option during install of whether you want the classic UI or the horrible new tablet orientated one, instead Microsoft have not only opted to make the new UI mandatory but are actively preventing mods that circumvent it.

Windows 7 for me when gaming and I might try to convert to Linux since most distros have a better UI now.

For a good reason, it would b suicide to have an option. They need an instant Install base, to get developers, developing. They are banking on it being the future. They also can see where Os and computing is going in general. They see that the days of the OS itself making money is dipping fast and that it's the AppStore and general Eco system, that is the real money maker.
Most if not all their choices are backed up by 100s of million of anonymous user experience stats. That doesn't mean everyone I'll like it. It however does ean they know what the largest groups of people do and use the OS.
I do think a lot of it is people either can't see or don't believe where computers are heading. One small aspect is that the massive options and customization isn't needed these days and so such options are hidden away from normal ushers. This has been clear with each iteration of windows. It's just windows8 is an even bigger step, in stripping down the high level user menus to the most used features only.

What, like you do? i think you should take that wonderful suggestion and go try it yourself.

I have thanks.
Or isnt my post well before yours clear enough.

 

[thenewoc]

When we talk about Win 8 for desktop and tablet, are we referring to the same software install or does the install process on a tablet limit the install size to eradicate all that isn't relevant? I just wonder because on a desktop the OS is a considerable size, around 20GB so surely it doesn't install a 20GB OS on a tablet?

 

[Glaucus]

X86 tablets are the same.
Win rt tablets are different. But known has hand on with those yet. As you can't install it yourself. So there's been no bata downloads available.

 

[theheyes]

Windows 7 for me when gaming and I might try to convert to Linux since most distros have a better UI now.

God if you think Metro is bad, good luck with Unity and some of the other Linux offerings.

 

[PCZ]

My opinion of it is that it would have been dead easy to just have an option during install of whether you want the classic UI or the horrible new tablet orientated one, instead Microsoft have not only opted to make the new UI mandatory but are actively preventing mods that circumvent it.

Windows 7 for me when gaming and I might try to convert to Linux since most distros have a better UI now.

Microsoft is making a big push with Metro.
Devs need persuading that the effort they put into writing Metro apps wil pay off.
One way of ensuring a bigger audience is to force Metro on users.
If given the option a lot of folks would turn it off.