Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
It sounds like at least some, if not most of his old team mates willing to testify are getting prefential treatment with their own bans for testifying against Armstrong. Again this is the USADA who keep going on record that cheating is cheating and they will treat EVERY CASE THE SAME.... unless they want one particular target more then all the rules go out the window. An organisation that throws away or ignores rules whenever it wants to, obviously painfully trustworthy.
Likewise there are no tests for some things, however he's being accused of doping since 98 I believe, and they have loads of old samples for him for donkeys years, and have failed to provide any proof of his cheating since then. The Swiss thing should be made clear, there is quite a bit of difference between a guy saying "this test meant he was almost certainly cheating", "this test was a clear positive for doping" and "this tests suggests he MIGHT have been cheating".
Someone with high testosterone naturally, tested at the wrong time of day could easily have a test that "suggests he might be cheating" with higher testosterone than someone else. The guy is still saying suggests he might have cheated, so the sample sounds to me like it was higher than average, but not breaking a predetermined limit that would automatically count as failed, in which case, its absolutely not proof of cheating.
Again from the outside its putting together different stories and not knowing which are true or not.
The Story, if true that was it 2 or 4 cyclists who recently tested positive for doping, which should be a big ban if not lifetime, both said Armstrong was doping and now both get 6 month bans that coincide with the offseason and mean they don't miss any of the seasons biggest(and most profitable) tours..... if true that comes across as making the USADA a complete joke.
Have people been in charge of huge investigative organisations before and concocted evidence and gone after people for personal reasons before? Yes, does it sound like a fair weather cycling fan based on whats been read that the USADA seem to be going after someone they just don't like and making up whatever they want to get him, very much so.
The other thing is it could be a guy in charge of the USADA who at some time a decade ago was further down the chain, did a test on Armstrong, it was positive, his bosses then burried it and he's now in charge and thinks the sport has to out Armstrong for what he is, also very possibly true.
The fact that they can't conjure up a single old sample, use newer testing methods to get a positive sample over probably thousands of stored samples is...... not good.
Marion Jones got found guilty in large part because, they found a bunch of evidence in the doctors office, and more importantly, she was being threatened with something like 8 years in jail and a $500k fine because the complete moronic idiots who made a crapload of money got caught up in a check fraud scheme with a DRUG DEALER. The check fraud case was proven beyond a doubt and pretty easily and she also failed a drug test.
Thing is innocent and guilty drugs cheats tend to act the same, deny deny deny.
Considering Jones has tested positive for EPO before and there is a test for it now, I can't see why Armstrong's old samples can't be retested, assuming they have and they still can't find a positive sample, that seems rather odd. Most of the biggest cheats in history have been caught by positive samples, most of the rest like Marion Jones had reasons for confessing like being caught red handed guilty of something else.
Meh, Cycling and athletics is pretty much a joke in terms of cheating and people being stripped of titles, yet we got the whole "olympic athletes are role models, footballers are scum" crap during the olympics. Fact is any "sport" which is purely about speed/power, instead of a mixture of abilities and skills, which is completely dependant on physical ability, will get a LOT of people cheating. Well it will when the outcome is linked to money anyway
Football, other sports that are basically games, being the fastest or strongest doesn't automatically mean you win, so drugs cheating in football/most team sports is not very wide spread and ultimately a bit pointless.
Overall I find pure physical sports ultimately boring, not least because the winner often, 5 years later, will turn out not to be the winner but. Being able to ride the fastest the longest......, being able to run 100metres in the shortest time, beyond being born a 1 in a billion, you aren't going to win it naturally. Football, I can name a fairly long list of overweight, can't run, alcoholic/drug addicts who have been at the top of their game and won things(and some that didn't but should have). Its about skill, vision, thinking more than its about being stronger than the other guy.
If people want no cheating in cycling/athletics, there needs to be the same winnings for everyone top to bottom. Take an event, sponsor it and give everyone the same cut, put every athlete in a group advert or whatever. When there is a crapload more money for winning than coming second.... people will cheat. Almost no one at the olympics was doing it for the pure love of sport, its a job with a lot more money available when you win and its based purely on physical abilities and this will encourage cheating till something massive changes.
Likewise there are no tests for some things, however he's being accused of doping since 98 I believe, and they have loads of old samples for him for donkeys years, and have failed to provide any proof of his cheating since then. The Swiss thing should be made clear, there is quite a bit of difference between a guy saying "this test meant he was almost certainly cheating", "this test was a clear positive for doping" and "this tests suggests he MIGHT have been cheating".
Someone with high testosterone naturally, tested at the wrong time of day could easily have a test that "suggests he might be cheating" with higher testosterone than someone else. The guy is still saying suggests he might have cheated, so the sample sounds to me like it was higher than average, but not breaking a predetermined limit that would automatically count as failed, in which case, its absolutely not proof of cheating.
Again from the outside its putting together different stories and not knowing which are true or not.
The Story, if true that was it 2 or 4 cyclists who recently tested positive for doping, which should be a big ban if not lifetime, both said Armstrong was doping and now both get 6 month bans that coincide with the offseason and mean they don't miss any of the seasons biggest(and most profitable) tours..... if true that comes across as making the USADA a complete joke.
Have people been in charge of huge investigative organisations before and concocted evidence and gone after people for personal reasons before? Yes, does it sound like a fair weather cycling fan based on whats been read that the USADA seem to be going after someone they just don't like and making up whatever they want to get him, very much so.
The other thing is it could be a guy in charge of the USADA who at some time a decade ago was further down the chain, did a test on Armstrong, it was positive, his bosses then burried it and he's now in charge and thinks the sport has to out Armstrong for what he is, also very possibly true.
The fact that they can't conjure up a single old sample, use newer testing methods to get a positive sample over probably thousands of stored samples is...... not good.
Marion Jones got found guilty in large part because, they found a bunch of evidence in the doctors office, and more importantly, she was being threatened with something like 8 years in jail and a $500k fine because the complete moronic idiots who made a crapload of money got caught up in a check fraud scheme with a DRUG DEALER. The check fraud case was proven beyond a doubt and pretty easily and she also failed a drug test.
Thing is innocent and guilty drugs cheats tend to act the same, deny deny deny.
Considering Jones has tested positive for EPO before and there is a test for it now, I can't see why Armstrong's old samples can't be retested, assuming they have and they still can't find a positive sample, that seems rather odd. Most of the biggest cheats in history have been caught by positive samples, most of the rest like Marion Jones had reasons for confessing like being caught red handed guilty of something else.
Meh, Cycling and athletics is pretty much a joke in terms of cheating and people being stripped of titles, yet we got the whole "olympic athletes are role models, footballers are scum" crap during the olympics. Fact is any "sport" which is purely about speed/power, instead of a mixture of abilities and skills, which is completely dependant on physical ability, will get a LOT of people cheating. Well it will when the outcome is linked to money anyway
Football, other sports that are basically games, being the fastest or strongest doesn't automatically mean you win, so drugs cheating in football/most team sports is not very wide spread and ultimately a bit pointless.
Overall I find pure physical sports ultimately boring, not least because the winner often, 5 years later, will turn out not to be the winner but. Being able to ride the fastest the longest......, being able to run 100metres in the shortest time, beyond being born a 1 in a billion, you aren't going to win it naturally. Football, I can name a fairly long list of overweight, can't run, alcoholic/drug addicts who have been at the top of their game and won things(and some that didn't but should have). Its about skill, vision, thinking more than its about being stronger than the other guy.
If people want no cheating in cycling/athletics, there needs to be the same winnings for everyone top to bottom. Take an event, sponsor it and give everyone the same cut, put every athlete in a group advert or whatever. When there is a crapload more money for winning than coming second.... people will cheat. Almost no one at the olympics was doing it for the pure love of sport, its a job with a lot more money available when you win and its based purely on physical abilities and this will encourage cheating till something massive changes.
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Get real, people.
