US official killed in embassy raid in Libya

I read your comment, and replied quite clearly and politely. Please try to do the same.

Maybe you should have read my comment more carefully. As I clearly said, sticking to the carton comparison. You suggest everyone should put down their pens and not goad. But where is this line? How do we magically know when we've gone to far? Better for Muslims to understand the world cannot revolve around their beliefs and instead ignore and tolerate questionable material, like other faiths seem to be able to do.

I'm sure Salman Rushdie for example could have done with yard stick you propose. Your suggestion would be he should have put his pen down and not written his book? Or wouldn't it have made more sense for some people to show more tolerance and not fire bomb book shops?

Deflection and again building strawmen. So stop with the sanctimonious initial line eh.

I didn't say people should stop drawing cartoons fullstop. I stated this: ""Well it is far easier to stop drawing cartoon deliberately designed to goad than to give up a way of life and a belief in god". Again you willfully turn it into something it is not saying. Notice the use of the singular "cartoon" which does not equate to the plural all "cartoons" - yet again you fail to read my posts properly and the meaning of words and therefore accuse me of taking viewpoints I am not taking.

If you want to just harp on about something you don't like fair enough off you go. But when you start arguing that point against people for no reason because it vaguely fits then you just come across as quite the demagogue yourself.
 
Deflection and again building strawmen. So stop with the sanctimonious initial line eh.

I didn't say people should stop drawing cartoons fullstop. I stated this: ""Well it is far easier to stop drawing cartoon deliberately designed to goad than to give up a way of life and a belief in god". Again you willfully turn it into something it is not saying. Notice the use of the singular "cartoon" which does not equate to the plural all "cartoons" - yet again you fail to read my posts properly and the meaning of words and therefore accuse me of taking viewpoints I am not taking.

If you want to just harp on about something you don't like fair enough off you go. But when you start arguing that point against people for no reason because it vaguely fits then you just come across as quite the demagogue yourself.

But you're missing the point (again). You state, "far easier to stop drawing cartoon deliberately designed to goad." But it's vague as it's down to personal interpretation. We're unfortunately not all blessed with your moral compass, but have our own. Many people may find the picture of Mohammed with a bomb on his head as strangely ironic, especially given this mornings Taliban attack. Most people see nothing wrong with irony.

And if we by some magic employ your magical line. Do you not think individuals for their own agenda will not cross it, for the right or wrong reasons? Consider the current video an example of this if you must? Violence will occur again! Innocent people will die again.

And furthermore, it's even more difficult than this. I draw a picture of Mohammed with a curlers in his hair and an alarm clock on his head. This gets printed around the world (& misinterpretted) as yet another picture of the prophet with a bomb on his head. Violence kicks off again, deaths, burned buildings etc etc... You know the usual deal. Wouldn't it simply be better if given this scenario the mob instead shrugged their shoulders and walked off?



The only solution is for the culture teaching/supporting this violence to change. We cannot be expected to successfully bend to meet every expectation of a fanatic religious minority. It will not work by the best will in the world.

As such, every finger of blame should point to this minority when it sets out with using violence in seemingly trying to force its will across other people.
 
Im bringing up the EDL because they have resorted to violence and thuggery to essentially what are words. If it wasn’t for the police protection for the protestors at the repatriation, what do you think would have happened?. There would likely have been a few people dead.

Really? So far they haven't even come close to killing anyone, police presence or not. In fact most of the violence surrounding EDL marches is started by groups like UAF.
 
Neil your being a clown on purpose, everyone knows the difference between having a laugh and intentionally goading people for a response.

Theres a difference from saying your moms fat to saying your moms a **** and goes around doing xxx.

What your saying is that the latter is fine and the person insulting someone's mother should carry on whilst the victim should sit down and STFU.

This film was made to do the latter not to have a laugh, look at citizen khan now that takes the **** out of muslims and its funny.
 
There may be a difference, but you are simply picking and choosing what is offensive...

Someone might find the latter funny, it is simply about how overly serious a person is in life, which i find abhorrent in any prospect.

Funnily enough they are usually the kind of morons who are close minded fools who follow just about anything with a voice louder than their own and can actually string a full sentence together.
 
Neil your being a clown on purpose, everyone knows the difference between having a laugh and intentionally goading people for a response.

Theres a difference from saying your moms fat to saying your moms a **** and goes around doing xxx.

What your saying is that the latter is fine and the person insulting someone's mother should carry on whilst the victim should sit down and STFU.

This film was made to do the latter not to have a laugh, look at citizen khan now that takes the **** out of muslims and its funny.

Find it offensive, protest about it being offensive but don't kill people that have absolutely nothing to do with the film, don't burn down businesses that have absolutely nothing to do with the film.
 
But you're missing the point (again). You state, "far easier to stop drawing cartoon deliberately designed to goad." But it's vague as it's down to personal interpretation. We're unfortunately not all blessed with your moral compass, but have our own. Many people may find the picture of Mohammed with a bomb on his head as strangely ironic, especially given this mornings Taliban attack. Most people see nothing wrong with irony.

And if we by some magic employ your magical line. Do you not think individuals for their own agenda will not cross it, for the right or wrong reasons? Consider the current video an example of this if you must? Violence will occur again! Innocent people will die again.

And furthermore, it's even more difficult than this. I draw a picture of Mohammed with a curlers in his hair and an alarm clock on his head. This gets printed around the world (& misinterpretted) as yet another picture of the prophet with a bomb on his head. Violence kicks off again, deaths, burned buildings etc etc... You know the usual deal. Wouldn't it simply be better if given this scenario the mob instead shrugged their shoulders and walked off?



The only solution is for the culture teaching/supporting this violence to change. We cannot be expected to successfully bend to meet every expectation of a fanatic religious minority. It will not work by the best will in the world.

As such, every finger of blame should point to this minority when it sets out with using violence in seemingly trying to force its will across other people.

You are arguing against something I haven't said or posted about. I am not missing the point I made a point you then built a strawman based around that point. If I wanted to make my point in relation to that I would have and yet I didn't. If you wish to make a general point then do so, as I have suggested. But don't make it to a loosely attributed point, pervert it, presume acceptance of the thing you think is being said and then not expect to get called out for what you are doing.
 
There may be a difference, but you are simply picking and choosing what is offensive...

Someone might find the latter funny, it is simply about how overly serious a person is in life, which i find abhorrent in any prospect.

Funnily enough they are usually the kind of morons who are close minded fools who follow just about anything with a voice louder than their own and can actually string a full sentence together.

I'm sorry but insulting someone's mother and making her the object of ridicule like the prophet(pbuh) in that film is more then having a laugh.

There is a big and serious difference between ridicule/abuse and comedy.
 
I'm sorry but insulting someone's mother and making her the object of ridicule like the prophet(pbuh) in that film is more then having a laugh.

There is a big and serious difference between ridicule/abuse and comedy.

No there isn't... it's in the perspective of the receiver.
 

You are arguing against something I haven't said or posted about. I am not missing the point I made a point you then built a strawman based around that point. If I wanted to make my point in relation to that I would have and yet I didn't. If you wish to make a general point then do so, as I have suggested. But don't make it to a loosely attributed point, pervert it, presume acceptance of the thing you think is being said and then not expect to get called out for what you are doing.

To clarify my position for you:

The organisers of the troubles should be held accountable.
The people who participated are responsible.
The maker of the video is culpable.
The reaction has to be taken in a broad historical/social context.
Violence is rarely excusable.
In this case it is not excusable it should be condemned.
Both the violence and the making of the video incur blame.
The weighting of that blame is not equivalent.
Freedom of speech is good but it comes with responsibility.
It would be have been easier for cartoonist to discontinue a particular drawing than the average individual believer to give up their faith. Nowhere did I say they should do though it was a statement of fact.
The Western world and the Muslim world have little common ground and therefore that will always cause understanding.
Attributing their thought processes onto the other will always result in problems: the average Muslim in the Yemen will not see the irony in a cartoon about the prophet, the average westerner will not see the insult in the cartoon.
This is not really about religion at the end of the day it's about something wider and more historical. In Iran we have a saying a translation would be as follows "the herdsman cares for the prophet, the ruler cares for the profit". those rulers have been propped up by what is seen as malevolent forces in the West who attempt to exercise control in other peoples countries and overtly display the trappings of that policy.
 
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Find it offensive, protest about it being offensive but don't kill people that have absolutely nothing to do with the film, don't burn down businesses that have absolutely nothing to do with the film.

Unfortunately throughout history we have seen that large mobs/vigilantes don't always adhere to laws of civilised people. These countries where this is happening are all clusterfu*** of violence/revolution and sadly the lack of security has resulted in a number of deaths.
 
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