Letting agents trying to charge for a tear in carpet that wasn't there when we moved out!

[jaybee]

It's not being a ****, it's just making sure your property is perfect after those "nice" tenants have left. If it belonged to you you'd be doing the same.

I assume sarcasm?
If you are serious, I wouldn't do that if I were a landlord/agent. I'd allow for fair wear and tear and if the place was clean and tidy leave it at that.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

I will be making her contest it, she's already sent her letting agent an email back saying basically that she's looked at the photos and the hole that is shown on the carpet was not there when they left the property at the end of last month so she isn't happy to have it taken out of their deposit.

She's then goes on to ask how to further discuss the issue as the property was left in immaculate condition and that the hole was made after they moved out and how to contest the money being taken from their deposit.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

Also they performed the check out inspection on 31/08/2012 according to their email to her - however I've checked the EXIF data from the pictures and they were taken on the 04/09/2012.

Does that carry any baring? Shouldn't images have been taken at the time of inspection?

And they've also attached an invoice for the carpet which states it been paid for etc already.

 

[Cosimo]

I assume sarcasm?
If you are serious, I wouldn't do that if I were a landlord/agent. I'd allow for fair wear and tear and if the place was clean and tidy leave it at that.

Only a hint of sarcasm. At least I would expect my agent to carry out the inspection and sign-off the property with the tenants present.

 

[JamesM]

I assume sarcasm?
If you are serious, I wouldn't do that if I were a landlord/agent. I'd allow for fair wear and tear and if the place was clean and tidy leave it at that.

Sadly as with everything there are good landlords and bad landlords.

Who manages the property, the landlord or the agent? If the agent was doing their job properly then once you had handed over the keys they should have gone round (providing they managed it) and checked the property over.

That doesn't mean inspect every last inch of it but give it a decent going over.

If this rip in the carpet is as big as they say and the location of it being bang smack centre in the middle of the room they should have noticed it.

Yes you can contest the amount however as rubbish a situation as it is, they have proof it's ripped and you don't have proof it wasn't when you moved out. The deposit protection people will look at the evidence, the fact that the carpet was fine when you moved in and now isn't will probably swing the decision in the landlords favour.

Next time make sure you meet the landlord/agent at the property and take pictures of the rooms and any marks that are visible.

I take it the £200 is for replacing the entire carpet?

 

[Moothead2]

Also they performed the check out inspection on 31/08/2012 according to their email to her - however I've checked the EXIF data from the pictures and they were taken on the 04/09/2012.

Does that carry any baring? Shouldn't images have been taken at the time of inspection?

And they've also attached an invoice for the carpet which states it been paid for etc already.

That leaves a 4-5 day window where the damage could have been done by someone other than the tenants. It surely can't hurt your argument.

 

[Vita]

Also they performed the check out inspection on 31/08/2012 according to their email to her - however I've checked the EXIF data from the pictures and they were taken on the 04/09/2012.

Does that carry any baring? Shouldn't images have been taken at the time of inspection?

And they've also attached an invoice for the carpet which states it been paid for etc already.

In this case seems like they're finding an excuse to keep the deposit. It's known as money from just the commission is never enough.

I can't say much else on the situation. However in future when leaving a place of rent, like others have mentioned, take pictures, videos, etc..If possible leave and give the keys with a lettings negotiator present. And the list of fixings/furnishings, and anything which has been damaged signed for by the tenant and them. This all so goes for bills, ie; a copy of the final utility bill/council tax all signed for and copies given.

Failing to do so would lead in to matters such as this.

 

[JamesM]

Also they performed the check out inspection on 31/08/2012 according to their email to her - however I've checked the EXIF data from the pictures and they were taken on the 04/09/2012.

Does that carry any baring? Shouldn't images have been taken at the time of inspection?

And they've also attached an invoice for the carpet which states it been paid for etc already.

Their camera might just have a wrong date so I can't see how that could help her fight her corner. My father has never set his camera date/time for example.

Normally as an agent we don't take pictures of a property, we do the check out, say whether we think it's ok or whether there's inventory parts missing to the landlord. We can't release the deposit until the landlord tells us to.

Out of interest was the carpet old and dated or was it a fairly new carpet?

 

[Moothead2]

Their camera might just have a wrong date so I can't see how that could help her fight her corner. My father has never set his camera date/time for example.

Normally as an agent we don't take pictures of a property, we do the check out, say whether we think it's ok or whether there's inventory parts missing to the landlord. We can't release the deposit until the landlord tells us to.

Out of interest was the carpet old and dated or was it a fairly new carpet?

Usually if you don't set the camera it's usually 02/11/03 or something like that, not a mere 5 days out .

Even if it is dismissed you may as well bring it up as it may cause a bit of doubt in the landlords argument.

 

[Vita]

Their camera might just have a wrong date so I can't see how that could help her fight her corner. My father has never set his camera date/time for example.

Normally as an agent we don't take pictures of a property, we do the check out, say whether we think it's ok or whether there's inventory parts missing to the landlord. We can't release the deposit until the landlord tells us to.

Out of interest was the carpet old and dated or was it a fairly new carpet?

Isn't it common to not release the deposit at all, unless the property is in the state left, on how it was given to them at the start of the tenancy?

That's how I've always done it and have only kept the deposit/parts of it, if inventory which is listed in the tenancy agreement is damaged. Prior to this, keeping digital copies of photos/utility bills etc To be sent to the third party DPS I use.

We had letting agents before who kept the deposit without even notifying us that they took a deposit. When we had asked them if they had taken a deposit they said no, yet the tenants said different. Looking into the tenancy agreements it wasn't even written!

 

[Cuchulain]

Just contest it, if they've fitted a whole new carpet to fix a small tear in it that's their problem not yours, you are not required to pay for a whole new carpet.

 

[Vita]

Just contest it, if they've fitted a whole new carpet to fix a small tear in it that's their problem not yours, you are not required to pay for a whole new carpet.

I'd agree to this. However then the response would be 'Well I couldn't find a bit to fit in the tear of the current carpet. If you had not made a tear then I would have not had to fit a new carpet in."

 

[feedtheram]

Also they performed the check out inspection on 31/08/2012 according to their email to her - however I've checked the EXIF data from the pictures and they were taken on the 04/09/2012.

Does that carry any baring? Shouldn't images have been taken at the time of inspection?

And they've also attached an invoice for the carpet which states it been paid for etc already.

Ask them when the pictures were taken. It could be genuine that they did the inspection then went back to take pics.

If they lie then it kinda backs up that something fishy is going on.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

The house is brand new pretty much, can't be more than 1-2 years old and as such the carpet was in excellent condition - and still is real

The rip is in the middle of the room there is no way you'd miss it when walking around.

 

[JamesM]

Isn't it common to not release the deposit at all, unless the property is in the state left, on how it was given to them at the start of the tenancy?

That's how I've always done it and have only kept the deposit/parts of it, if inventory which is listed in the tenancy agreement is damaged. Prior to this, keeping digital copies of photos/utility bills etc To be sent to the third party DPS I use.

We had letting agents before who kept the deposit without even notifying us that they took a deposit. When we had asked them if they had taken a deposit they said no, yet the tenants said different. Looking into the tenancy agreements it wasn't even written!

All depends how the property is left and the circumstances, at the end of the day the final say lies with the Landlord. We can't hold onto a deposit forever but nor can we give it out without a go ahead.

As an agent, if we manage the property we try and meet the tenant at the property to see them out. We check the inventory, note down any changes and take the keys. The landlord is then updated and sometimes they are fine with us saying it's ok on their behalf and we release the deposit. Some landlords are more picky and want to go and inspect it themselves.

Now that deposit protection is around, we can withhold a certain amount for damages and return the remainder to the tenant, at the same time informing them why an amount has been held. They either agree with this and job done or they don't and they contest it, in which case it goes to the scheme along with the evidence (photos, receipts, statements from LL and tenant).

All letting agents should take a deposit, if they don't then you need to find another agent tbh. Our deposits are noted in the agreement and obviously these days every deposit has to be protected so you should get a certificate proving that when the tenant moves in.

 

[JamesM]

Just contest it, if they've fitted a whole new carpet to fix a small tear in it that's their problem not yours, you are not required to pay for a whole new carpet.

But you should leave the property as it was when you moved in. I'm not saying this is the case in the OP situation but if you owned a property with a brand new carpet which the tenant had marked/cut, why should you as a landlord have to a) fork out money for it to be repaired and b) end up with a carpet with a square patch in it which could effect you re-letting it again in the future?

We had a tenant who left a nice iron mark on a brand new carpet at a property we managed. She blamed it on her friend being stupid but then queried why the landlord had held back whatever amount it was for replacing said carpet when she moved out.

As a tenant you rent a property, you don't own it. It's no different to hiring a car and returning it with a dent in the rear quarter and expecting the dealership to simply charge you for the patch of metal to replace the dent while ignoring the labour, paint and cost of the whole panel which would need replacing.

All this excludes general wear and tear of course.

 

[Vita]

All depends how the property is left and the circumstances, at the end of the day the final say lies with the Landlord. We can't hold onto a deposit forever but nor can we give it out without a go ahead.

As an agent, if we manage the property we try and meet the tenant at the property to see them out. We check the inventory, note down any changes and take the keys. The landlord is then updated and sometimes they are fine with us saying it's ok on their behalf and we release the deposit. Some landlords are more picky and want to go and inspect it themselves.

Now that the deposit protection is around, we can withhold a certain amount for damages and return the remainder to the tenant, at the same time informing them why an amount has been held. They either agree with this and job done or they don't and they contest it, in which case it goes to the scheme along with the evidence (photos, receipts, statements from LL and tenant).

All letting agents should take a deposit, if they don't then you need to find another agent tbh. Our deposits are noted in the agreement and obviously these days every deposit has to be protected so you should get a certificate proving that when you move in.

Yes just as how I saw it. Thanks for the informing post. As I was afraid some people may do things differently to how I do them, and that I may be doing it wrong.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

yes the £200 charge is for replacing the whole carpet, the attached scanned invoice states it was paid for and work has already been completed on 7th Sept.

 

[JamesM]

Doesn't matter if it's been paid for or not, you can still dispute it. If you win the landlord is out of pocket, if he wins then he gets the £200 pounds so don't let that worry you. The agent shouldn't release the amount to the landlord until the deposit scheme gives it's verdict but it depends what scheme they are part of. With ours we hold the deposit, the other type is where the scheme hold the money.

If it was me, i'd dispute it whatever purely because even if you loose, it causes the landlord hassle as he sounds like a ***.

Can I confirm the letter, pictures, etc came from the agent or from the agent on behalf of the landlord? If the agent is acting on behalf of the landlord then they should have carried out a check out before the landlord went round, in which case they should have noticed the tear then. If they we're honest people they would then query the cut with the landlord, almost fighting your corner so to speak.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

Doesn't matter if it's been paid for or not, you can still dispute it. If you win the landlord is out of pocket, if he wins then he gets the £200 pounds so don't let that worry you. The agent shouldn't release the amount to the landlord until the deposit scheme gives it's verdict but it depends what scheme they are part of. With ours we hold the deposit, the other type is where the scheme hold the money.

If it was me, i'd dispute it whatever purely because even if you loose, it causes the landlord hassle as he sounds like a ***.

Can I confirm the letter, pictures, etc came from the agent or from the agent on behalf of the landlord? If the agent is acting on behalf of the landlord then they should have carried out a check out before the landlord went round, in which case they should have noticed the tear then. If they we're honest people they would then query the cut with the landlord, almost fighting your corner so to speak.

JamesM - the emails are from the letting agent directly. In all fairness the letting agent appears to have been OK and has kept in good contact with my girlfriend about everything, and has said they can have the rest of their deposit back minus the £200 that is going to be contested. He's kept them in the loop and is apparantly waiting to hear back from the Landlord on the matter.