Missing girl 15, runs off with Maths teacher.

Ahleckz said:
Let off for what? What criminal act has he committed, and if he has then why would it be in the public interest to imprison him?
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Child Abduction contrary to S.2 of the Child Abduction Act 1984. The offence is still complete if the child consents.

2 Offence of abduction of child by other persons.

(1)[F1Subject to subsection (3) below, a person, other than one mentioned in subsection (2) below.] commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, he takes or detains a child under the age of sixteen—
(a)so as to remove him from the lawful control of any person having lawful control of the child; or
(b)so as to keep him out of the lawful control of any person entitled to lawful control of the child.
[F2(2)The persons are—
(a)where the father and mother of the child in question were married to each other at the time of his birth, the child’s father and mother;
(b)where the father and mother of the child in question were not married to each other at the time of his birth, the child’s mother; and
(c)any other person mentioned in section 1(2)(c) to (e) above.
(3)In proceedings against any person for an offence under this section, it shall be a defence for that person to prove—
(a)where the father and mother of the child in question were not married to each other at the time of his birth—
(i)that he is the child’s father; or
(ii)that, at the time of the alleged offence, he believed, on reasonable grounds, that he was the child’s father; or
(b)that, at the time of the alleged offence, he believed that the child had attained the age of sixteen.]
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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/37/section/2
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Child Abduction contrary to S.2 of the Child Abduction Act 1984. The offence is still complete if the child consents.



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/37/section/2
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Beaten like a ginger step-child 2 posts up :p



TBH though, I had already posted this 2 days ago so no idea why people are still arguing about what offence he HAS committed and what offences he MAY have committed

Richie said:
Legally speaking he has actually committed child abduction due to her age of being under 16 (this applies in E&W). If she was 16 then he would have been fine.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/37/section/2
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I feel ignored :(


:p
 
Richie said:
Irrespective of the sexual element (if it can even be proven), the guy has committed child abduction in a legal sense....
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I know, but that doesn't mean that this guy has been unethical or abused his position.

Craig R said:
Meaning he may well have been grooming her since she was 14 years old.

Is that fair game in your books?
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Or, he hasn't and they've naturally fallen for each other.

Burnsy2023 said:
Child Abduction contrary to S.2 of the Child Abduction Act 1984. The offence is still complete if the child consents.



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/37/section/2
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I know.
 
spicypixel said:
That was awkward, I opened http://postimage.org/image/ki4j0tsxz/ in a new tab, forgot about it and then saw it like 30mins later. Didn't really work out what was wrong with it and closed it only to realise later.
Kinda telling that under first glance it didn't look out of place. (Unless you count terrible filters on photography)
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What is the point of that picture? Am I missing something? :confused:
 
I imagine that they will realise that there is no real way to escape and even if they could its not a realistic prospect to try to set up a life in a country that wont extradite them back to England. It will probably end when they decide to watch Twilight and off themselves from the nearest cliff.
 
Ahleckz said:
I know, but that doesn't mean that this guy has been unethical or abused his position.
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It is manifestly unethical (which is a subjective term anyway) according to most right-minded individuals to do what he has done, and it is certainly an abuse of his position. He had contact with her due to being a teacher, he had a position of authority over her that whilst may not have contributed to her feelings, is still a factor.

Parents have a reasonable expectation that sending their children to school where they are beyond their immediate care and observation that they will not be abducted or groomed by teachers, if that happens a teacher has clearly "abused their position". Teachers have a duty of care and are held (legally) to a higher standard above random individuals on the street.

I agree with the concept that she might be mature enough to have made this decision, and that it is a bit of a nonsense that a 15 year old 1 day away from her 16th birthday is a completely different person to one who has just turned 16, but as previously stated the application of Law has to work in absolutes to be able to function.

I think ultimately given the media attention on this the guy is probably going to end up jailed regardless of what she might say in interviews in his defence, because the Law will regard her testimony as that of a child who is legally incapable of making these decisions.
 
Ahleckz said:
I know, but that doesn't mean that this guy has been unethical or abused his position.
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I haven't read the thread to be fair, but are you saying that a Teacher having a relationship with an under-age student in his care is not unethical or an abuse of his position of trust?
 
I think he should lose his job but I don't think he deserves to go to jail or anything like that. On the surface it appears to be consensual. Maybe it will turn out to be something more sinister, but I don't think anyone should be reaching for their pitch forks just yet.
 
grimm said:
I think he should lose his job but I don't think he deserves to go to jail or anything like that. On the surface it appears to be consensual. Maybe it will turn out to be something more sinister, but I don't think anyone should be reaching for their pitch forks just yet.
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There's no such thing as consensual with a minor.
 
grimm said:
Maybe it will turn out to be something more sinister, but I don't think anyone should be reaching for their pitch forks just yet.
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People these days have their pitchforks sharpened and ready by the door before the full facts are even known.... I'll feel awkward even saying hello to some kid that says hello to me in case anyone thinks things.... Am I being over cautious? Yes, but better that than being accused of anything remotely connected with the "pedo" arena... Lives are ruined over false accusations or rumours...
 
Durzel said:
It is manifestly unethical (which is a subjective term anyway) according to most right-minded individuals to do what he has done, and it is certainly an abuse of his position. He had contact with her due to being a teacher, he had a position of authority over her that whilst may not have contributed to her feelings, is still a factor.

Parents have a reasonable expectation that sending their children to school where they are beyond their immediate care and observation that they will not be abducted or groomed by teachers, if that happens a teacher has clearly "abused their position". Teachers have a duty of care and are held (legally) to a higher standard above random individuals on the street.

I agree with the concept that she might be mature enough to have made this decision, and that it is a bit of a nonsense that a 15 year old 1 day away from her 16th birthday is a completely different person to one who has just turned 16, but as previously stated the application of Law has to work in absolutes to be able to function.

I think ultimately given the media attention on this the guy is probably going to end up jailed regardless of what she might say in interviews in his defence, because the Law will regard her testimony as that of a child who is legally incapable of making these decisions.
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Castiel said:
I haven't read the thread to be fair, but are you saying that a Teacher having a relationship with an under-age student in his care is not unethical or an abuse of his position of trust?
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Pretty much. There is no evidence to suggest that he abused his position and coerced this girl to do what she has done. It seems, from the media reports and common sense, that she has gone along with this under her own free will rather than be forced or abducted (in the 'hostile' sense of the word) against her will. Nor do we know that she has been groomed by him. Hell, it could be the other way round. I think it's entirely reasonable for a 15 year old girl to use her way to get what she pleases.

I think, and I've said this numerous times, that I don't think that it's right what he has done. All I'm saying is we shouldn't be painting this guy to be some monster when it's entirely possible that he isn't and it's just two people who feel that they want to be with each other and this is the only way to do it.

Yes, he should know differently and not acted in this way. Add to this what his father cryptically said, then it's possible he's not all there?

Ultimately, I think we need to wait for the facts and for their version of events to come out rather than have trial through the media and condemn him and paint him as a grooming paedophile before due diligence has been carried out.
 
LOAM said:
There's no such thing as consensual with a minor.
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You're confusing what the law says with what happens in the real world.

Those laws are there to protect minors, but in this case if they are both happy I can't really see how the law is relevant to them.

Assuming they are still together in 15 years and she is 30 and he is 45, how would you view it?
 
Ahleckz said:
Pretty much. There is no evidence to suggest that he abused his position and coerced this girl to do what she has done.
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Regardless of whether she went under her own free will or not, the Teacher has abused a position of trust. The evidence is clear in the fact they have absconded together and that they have been conducting an inappropriate relationship.

He abused his position because even if the Girl moves to initiate an intimate relationship he is bound by the ethical guidelines of his position to refuse any such advances regardless of his personal feelings, the Girl is 15 and therefore under the age of consent and even if she was over the age of consent the Teachers position would still make it unethical to pursue such a relationship with his student.

He doesn't have to coerce the Girl to be guilty of unethical and inappropriate conduct.
 
Castiel said:
He doesn't have to coerce the Girl to be guilty of unethical and inappropriate conduct.
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This.

That it happened, and not the circumstances, is completion of the offence (abduction, possibly sexual offences if it transpires there is that element to it too) in Law.

Legally it only matters that he reciprocated these advances, or initiated them. Whether they "are in love", "both wanted to do it", or whatever is academic (no pun intended).
 
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