Child obesity - Your thoughts

[Castiel]

It really is that simple. As I touched on, as you get bigger your body's hormonal profile changes, and in men certainly testosterone and the ability to store and use muscle decreases (unless you have got a decent amount of muscle mass), and as such it makes it increasingly difficulty to lose weight.

This is why it isn't actually that simple. Hormones such as Ghrelin will inhibit your metabolism making it increasingly difficult to burn the calories the larger you get...it can in severely obese people mean that they are eating very small relative calorie content yet are not losing the weight they should.

I had an interesting conversation about this with a Bariatric Surgeon not long ago and he explained that once the body is past a certain capacity then it becomes virtually impossible to lose weight without intervention of some kind, be that surgery or lipid binding medication.

For the average person who is a few stone overweight then the Calories in...calories out mantra is fine, but in severely obese people the issue is far more complex than simply restricting diets orally.

 

[Skillmister]

ASDA Smartprice Chicken & Veg Pies
4x 120g
84p

85% chicken, so 340g actual chicken, 8.5 times the chicken content of the pies for only 2.5 times the price.

But the whole point is that it is still 2.5 times the price and therefore more expensive than processed food.

 

[jas72]

just to jump on the band wagon what about fizzy water is it just as bad?

 

[Omaeka]

No they are bad people, or have some kind of learning difficulty / just stupid, nothing to do with parenting.

First and foremost responsibility as a parent is to keep your child healthy and happy, this involves the food you give them, and if somebody is too stupid to realize a bunch of greasy chips every day is going to harm their children, and don't bother to make sure their children get decent exercise then they shouldn't be let have children, people should seriously have to go through tests to see how they'd be as a parent, and if they are so god damn stupid or negligent that they'd let their kid do the above, then they should be black listed until their IQ improves. The fact stupid people are having stupid kids is the cause for the state this country is slowly falling into. If society is to blame, then the parents are to blame even more so for following said society when childhood obesity is so rife.

It's the stuff like all of this that should open the parents eyes, and if it doesn't then lol.

 

[Castiel]

ASDA Smartprice Chicken & Veg Pies
4x 120g
84p

Cooked Chicken Breast with added Water (10%) [Chicken (85%), Water, Salt] , carrots 2%, peas 2%

So that is 12g of cooked chicken breast per pie, or 10g actual chicken when you factor in the added water and salt. 2.1g of each veg. The rest is just water and wheat flour.

So that whole box of pies has a whopping 40g of chicken.

ASDA Chicken Breast Chunks
(400g)
£2

85% chicken, so 340g actual chicken, 8.5 times the chicken content of the pies for only 2.5 times the price.

You missed the point, it isn't about cost to nutrition ratio....just the cost to the consumer. The cost is still over twice as much and that is significant to someone trying to feed a family on very little money.

But the whole point is that it is still 2.5 times the price and therefore more expensive than processed food.

precisely.

 

[boxman2000]

I would get the popcorn out at this stage but it's too high in salt and fear I would be hated if I got fat

 

[Freefaller]

This is why it isn't actually that simple. Hormones such as Ghrelin will inhibit your metabolism making it increasingly difficult to burn the calories the larger you get...it can in severely obese people mean that they are eating very small relative calorie content yet are not losing the weight they should.

I had an interesting conversation about this with a Bariatric Surgeon not long ago and he explained that once the body is past a certain capacity then it becomes virtually impossible to lose weight without intervention of some kind, be that surgery or lipid binding medication.

For the average person who is a few stone overweight then the Calories in...calories out mantra is fine, but in severely obese people the issue is far more complex than simply restricting diets orally.

Yes but you do not become obese over night...

You can change by following a diet change and increasing activity.. but you should never have got to that state in the first place!

However you are correct, that once your body passes the tipping point, you do need some medical help, whether it be drugs or surgery. However... I'll repeat this... you do not become obese over night

 

[krooton]

You missed the point, it isn't about cost to nutrition ratio....just the cost to the consumer. The cost is still over twice as much and that is significant to someone trying to feed a family on very little money.

If they made the equivalent pies from scratch, it would actually be cheaper than buying the pies ready made, but people either don't know how or can't be arsed.

 

[Morba]

I would get the popcorn out at this stage but it's too high in salt and fear I would be hated if I got fat

here have one on me, i'm already fat

 

[Xordium]

Oh god, not this as well
Sorry but nothing has been shown to consistently show that bottle/breast really makes a difference.

Yes it has but I guess I'll just take the word of the OCUK forums that is it that simple and not as UNICEF, WHO, DoH etc and all those journals say:

Arch Dis Child 2012;97:A181-A182 doi:10.1136/archdischild-2012-301885.425
Child Public Health Interest Group
Using the MRC framework for complex interventions to develop a childhood obesity prevention trial: the baby milk trial
R Lakshman1,2, S Griffin1,2, W Hardeman3, A Schiff1, KK Ong1,2,3

I shall write to them all and tell them they are wrong: OCUK say Calories in - calories out = PUT THE FORK DOWN!

 

[Freakbro]

Yes but you do not become obese over night...

You can change by following a diet change and increasing activity.. but you should never have got to that state in the first place!

However you are correct, that once your body passes the tipping point, you do need some medical help, whether it be drugs or surgery. However... I'll repeat this... you do not become obese over night

Which is exactly what I was going to say.

And since we are talking about children, they don't come out obese, generally don't have access to feed themselves, so it is down to the parents to monitor and regulate the food intake *before* they get to such obese levels that medical intervention is necessary.

The principle of which applies equally to anyone who became morbidly obese. I put on weight easily when I eat the wrong foods, but when I feel too large I regulate my food intake and lose weight. I hit 16.5 stone last year, felt terrible about it so have now lost 3st....it's not rocket science

 

[Morba]

Yes it has: Arch Dis Child 2012;97:A181-A182 doi:10.1136/archdischild-2012-301885.425
Child Public Health Interest Group
Using the MRC framework for complex interventions to develop a childhood obesity prevention trial: the baby milk trial
R Lakshman1,2, S Griffin1,2, W Hardeman3, A Schiff1, KK Ong1,2,3

and I can bombard you with plenty more where that came from.

You can bombard me with whatever you want, there are millions of kids out there that do not conform to the breast/bottle theory on weight, size and/or health issues.

 

[Castiel]

here have one on me, i'm already fat

You have the popcorn, I'll take Allysa Milano home and burn off a few calories....

 

[Castiel]

If they made the equivalent pies from scratch, it would actually be cheaper than buying the pies ready made, but people either don't know how or can't be arsed.

I made a nice steak pie not long ago...and it cost me £13.....

 

[Haggisman]

just to jump on the band wagon what about fizzy water is it just as bad?

Not sure if serious? (if it is just carbonated water then it's no worse than regular water)

If they made the equivalent pies from scratch, it would actually be cheaper than buying the pies ready made, but people either don't know how or can't be arsed.

This is true, but then if you were going to make a chicken pie, you'd make it properly. There's also the fact that it would take 3-4 times longer to cook than shoving a pre-made, pre-cooked pie in the oven to warm up for 20 mins. Unfortunately in current society it's virtually a requirement for both parents to work to have any hope of a comfortable life - this doesn't leave a huge amount of time to prepare food after getting home at ~6pm and kids are due in bed by 8-9pm.

 

[Castiel]

Yes but you do not become obese over night...

You can change by following a diet change and increasing activity.. but you should never have got to that state in the first place!

However you are correct, that once your body passes the tipping point, you do need some medical help, whether it be drugs or surgery. However... I'll repeat this... you do not become obese over night

Indeed, but again often it is also a psychological barrier that people need to surmount as well as a physical one...I am simply saying that it is not really that simple to point and shoot in judgement at any given individual.

 

[Judgeneo]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the fatty evil that is coca-cola yet

 

[Omaeka]

You have the popcorn, I'll take Allysa Milano home and burn off a few calories....

She's good motivation to sort your kids out haha, I'd want my son growing up to be with a babe like her tbh, it's your responsibility to give them the best lives possible and all that. So if what I feed my kid is going to ultimately effect that, then its just as important as getting them through college IMO.

EDIT: she was Arnies kid in Commando, I never knew that!

I made a nice steak pie not long ago...and it cost me £13.....

Steak is not chicken and chicken is not steak. If you went and got a steak pie then you'd be eating 80% grease, pastry and salt and 20% meat, home made is gonna cost a lot more with steaks.

 

[Dave M]

But the whole point is that it is still 2.5 times the price and therefore more expensive than processed food.

Wait, 8.5 times the nutrition for only 2.5 times the price.

The whole point of eating healthily is to fill the protein, fat, fibre and micronutrient requirement before stacking cheap carbs on top.

So if the measly amount of chicken and veg in the pie is really all you require (it isn't) then you could eat the same nutrition for a 3rd of the cost and have a few more cheap chips to satisfy your requirement.

You eat as well, for less!

Or eat better for the same.

Yes you have to read the back of the packet, know some rda's and do some simple calculations. This requires you to give a damn which most obese people don't.

ps. I was obese, I didn't give a damn, I changed my mind, educated myself and now I'm not. I didn't need an excuse then and I don't now.

 

[krooton]

per ovenbaked pie (17.4p / kg)
Energy kCal 333kCal
Energy kJ 1,392kJ
Protein 7.2g
Carbohydrate 31.9g
of which sugars 6.0g
Fat 19.3g
of which saturates 9.5g
Fibre 1.6g
Sodium 0.2g
Salt Equivalent 0.6g



100g of dried lentils from Asda (17.5p / 100g)

Energy kCal 297kCal
Energy kJ 1,264kJ
Protein 24.0g
Carbohydrate 48.8g
of which sugars N/A
Fat 1.9g
of which saturates N/A
Fibre N/A
Sodium N/A
Salt N/A

So for the same price, you get 3 times the protein, 60% more carbs and a tenth of the fat.