Condems have run up largest ever UK Debt

I think we need a rule where if you are going to start a thread on politics and/or the economy, you have to actually have a clue first.

I'm not sure what lowrider is on about either, we are in the mess we are in and we know who got us there.
 
fez said:
This is what worries me about politics. Everyone gets to vote regardless of their complete lack of understanding.

We don't clear the country's debt whenever we get a new political party so when the previous government has endeavoured to screw the country over hugely, it won't be fixed in a few years. It will take years and years to undo the damage and by then, we will have forgotten about it and we will probably do it again.

Blame the government that was in power during a brilliant economic boom and still managed to screw up in a plethora of ways. I genuinely do worry that people are being less informed / incapable of actually thinking for themselves. At least ignorance should give the feeling that someone doesn't understand an issue; these days we are all "educated" on issues by the media which has been getting worse and worse for years.
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The global financial crisis wasn't the fault of Labour.

You talk about people not knowing what they are talking about yet you seem to be displaying the same kind of behaviour you so despise.

When comparing public spending as a percent of GDP it didn't change that much under Labour, it increased along with GDP with ups & downs within normal margins of movement.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_brief.php

I agree Labour screwed up plenty of things while in power, but I'm getting sick & tired of hearing the same old rubbish trying to pin a global event which originated in the USA blame onto Labour, it's stupid & factually wrong.

Slack regulation (which was the continuation of neo-liberal policies initiated by the last conservative government before Labour) are as much to blame for what happened (which both political parties are equally guilty of).

Gogl said:
If only the same condition could be placed as a requirement for anything.
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Fixed.
 
elmarko1234 said:
The global financial crisis wasn't the fault of Labour.

You talk about people not knowing what they are talking about yet you seem to be displaying the same kind of behaviour you so despise.

I agree Labour screwed up plenty of things while in power, but I'm getting sick & tired of hearing the same old rubbish trying to pin a global event which originated in the USA blame onto Labour, it's stupid & factually wrong.
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Strawman.

The post you are replying to doesn't claim that Labour 'caused' the Global Economic Crisis.

All it says is blame the Government that was in power in the economic good times for the crap we have now, now I take that be the "not repairing the roof whilst the sun was shining" argument which is a valid one. It's not that Labour 'caused' the crisis, it's that they naively thought (or acted) like the economic boom was a permanent thing so didn't save for that rainy day we now have.
 
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lowrider007 said:
, during that decade everyone was ignorant to the fact they we were in a boom bubble, ********.
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:confused:

No we weren't, the only one with that delusion was brown, who increasing spent more in boom time, so when it came to teh crash we had far to higher debt, meaning we were less flexible to buy our way out.
Boom time you pay debt off, now we're **** and haven't got the money to buy our way out which is the normal course.

When times are good you out the house in order, labour/brown did not do this. Instead he borrowed even more to raise the boom time a fracture more. Wasn't it something like an extra £3 spent for £1 back in the boom times. Yeah great plan brown.
 
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estebanrey said:
Strawman.

The post you are replying to doesn't claim that Labour 'caused' the Global Economic Crisis.

All it says is blame the Government that was in power in the economic good times for the crap we have now, now I take that be the "not repairing the rood whilst the sun was shining" argument which is a valid one. It's not that Labour 'caused' the crisis, it's that they naively thought (or acted) like the economic boom was a permanent thing so didn't save for that rainy day we now have.
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Name one political entity which saves for a rainy day & doesn't spend more/or cut tax rates for the top earners during the boom years.

It's not a straw man because it's implied it would have been different under a conservative government (which it clearly wouldn't have).

I never said that he implied Labour caused the global financial crisis (I simply stated they didn't - which ironically is a straw-man of your own).

The economic mess we are in was caused by the global financial crisis which Labour didn't cause.

Do you not think this line of his "Blame the government that was in power during a brilliant economic boom and still managed to screw up in a plethora of ways." implies a misallocation of blame on one specific party for a global problem which was the result of a continuation of neo-liberal policies?
 
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estebanrey said:
It's not that Labour 'caused' the crisis, it's that they naively thought (or acted) like the economic boom was a permanent thing so didn't save for that rainy day we now have.
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This through public sector budgeting, social spending on benefits and the meddling in the City.
 
Glaucus said:
Really? How can you say that. Tories do not increase spending for nothing.
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No they don't, but they cut the top tax rate which reduces government finances for nothing (as it's been proven to have no link to growth).

Do you admit that slackening of financial regulation during the 80's & it's continuation during the Labour government are both to blame for opening us up to the vulnerability?.

Do you think that the Tory's would have further reduced regulation?, I do.
 
elmarko1234 said:
No they don't, but they cut the top tax rate which reduces government finances for nothing (as it's been proven to have no link to growth).

Do you admit that slackening of financial regulation during the 80's & it's continuation during the Labour government are both to blame for opening us up to the vulnerability?.

Do you think that the Tory's would have further reduced regulation?, I do.
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That does not increase debt, the two are not even remotely the same.

The biggest mistake which caused the unessacery hardship. Was spending extortionate amount of monie increasing the boom by a time amount.
That's it, the recession would have happened, but it wouldn't of affected us nearly as much.

There is a clear and massive difference between what the parties would have done and is not the same like you say.

Reduced regulation quite possible, in the same way who knows. What they wouldn't of done is create thousands of pen pusher jobs. They would have liked cut taxes, but that would have helped the economy and at the same time not increase debt.

It would have been much better for labour rather than ****** the money down the toilet like they did, they should off masively improved infrastructure and get it cheap and reliable. At least that way it helps you out in the down times and isn't just monie peed up a wall.
 
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MrMoonX said:
well well well, looks as though the Tory mantra of reducing the deficit with balmy austerity measures truly isnt working "official statistics showed Britain ran up the largest current account deficit on record in the second quarter of 2012" :rolleyes:

Just shows how broken the capitalist financial system really is or that Cameron and co are just a bunch of incompetent fools, which judging his Letterman performance is quite probable.

source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/27/uk-gdp-economy-data-second-quarter
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Rubbish

Utter rubbish

I hate the parties equally.

Labour made a HUGE contribution to UK debt, con-lib didnt just run up a debt from £0 in a couple of years.

Hate them all equally then you can analyse them impartially.
 
Glaucus said:
Really? How can you say that. Tories do not increase spending for nothing.
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Ah, so it's not deficits you're concerned about, just spending? How about the fact the the GOP were in power from 2001 until the crisis hit? Does that not mean anything to you? Or did they adopt radical leftist spending policy, as well?

Spending isn't the only thing that drives up deficits, unaffordable tax cuts do, as well. Funny how peacetime deficits only started exploding during the 1980s, and post New Deal financial crises only started to occur in the same decade...

http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php
 
Johnnytoxic said:
Just think what it could have been if Labour were still in power.
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Seriously, its a double edged sword. Until liquidity and confidence is restored in the banking system a can't see increased government spending really helping at all. Labours plan could cost us a couple of hundred billion and affect nothing as SME's still wouldn't be able to walk into a bank and ask for money if they need it to expand.

The banks are undergoing massive re-capitalisation and hoovering up all the money the government can print without re-distributing it back into the economy until that's sorted there's no point as far as I can see of a government going on a spending spree....
 
In a boom time you can cut taxes without increasing debt. Economy is strong and brings in more tax revenue anyway. So it is perfectly possible to cut tax and not increase debt at all in a boom period.

So no, it's not just spending I focus on. It's debt and in a boom time, you don't borrow huge amounts for pretty much no gain like brown did. How can you even argue otherwise?
 
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