Back-to-work scheme ruled lawful by High Court

What I don't understand is this. If these employers need workers, why don't they just hire someone and pay them minimum wage like others are forced too.

And if they don't need workers, how can the experience ever lead to employment.
 
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good on burger king.. if i was only getting jsa but working 40hr's a week i think i'd probably be suicidal, people are saying its experience but if the paid work isnt there then it just becomes slave labour, jsa gives you just enough to have a roof over your head and food..

kids leaving college are always sending me letters asking if they can come to work with me, free labour just to gain experience but it makes me feel sick at the thought of them working for nothing, i'd much rather pay them but i cant afford to so dont bother ringing back.
 
Stretch said:
What I don't understand is this. If these employers need workers, why don't they just hire someone and pay them minimum wage like others are forced too.

And if they don't need workers, how can the experience ever lead to employment.
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Thing is if they're getting staff for next to nothing then not using that member of staff effectively I'd argue it was doing that young person more harm than good. The impression is that you go to work and dont' do much every day, stand about bored silly waiting on the next instruction from your equally bored boss.

Regardless of how much initiative someone has there's only so much work you can grab in a fast food restaurant without getting in the way of someone else or pestering customers.
 
Stretch said:
What I don't understand is this. If these employers need workers, why don't they just hire someone and pay them minimum wage like others are forced too.

And if they don't need workers, how can the experience ever lead to employment.
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The scheme is voluntary, that's why a judge ruled it lawful, only problem is that jobcentre staff don't tell you this and say you may lose benefit if you refuse. The girl who took the case to court didn't know it was voluntary and was led to believe she was being forced to do it so the judge rapped the governments knuckles over it. Anyone who refuses and lose benefit should seek legal advice.
 
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kitch9 said:
I presume you have accurate analysis which clearly indicates that actual jobs will be displaced instead of created as supervisory roles?
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Please tell me how I am wrong. It's pretty simple to understand; company x offers work experience, company x then does not require paid staff for the role as the state is providing free labour.
 
edscdk said:
dont put a degree on your CV if you are applying for a job serving people in a shop.....
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Asda didn't mind, but I was only in my second year back then.

After I graduated, the only thing I wanted was a job, ANY JOB better than stacking shelves or flipping burgers. I applied for everysingle call centre and secretary job I could find and there were lots where I went to uni, but not a single one even replied. I was stuck stacking shelves for 8 months after graduating, couldn't afford to live of the wage, moved back home and claimed IB for an illness I have and the Jobcentre told me straight 'You don't have to work at all if you've been diagnosed with this', and put me on IB permanently untill there's a cure for what I have (which won't happen within my lifetime), or I turn 65.

I could have still worked if anywhere offered me a job above manual labour, but no one did and I don't have to for medical reasons so why even bother wasting my time looking anymore?
 
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UncleRuckus said:
Please tell me how I am wrong. It's pretty simple to understand; company x offers work experience, company x then does not require paid staff for the role as the state is providing free labour.
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There's a difference between voluntary work experience and being coorced / forced into doing free labour. If a company wishes to offer work experience roles then that is great for people who are desperate for a reference. But to treat unemployed people like criminals doing community service, and forcing them into doing the unpaid work experience a under threat of losing their benefits is forcing them into slave labour.

And no, 2 weeks of stacking shelves in poundland does not get you sufficient work experience. E.g. Asda hired me while I was student who had only had 2 temp part time jobs and charity work over the summer over a 40 year old woman who was currently working at netto but wanting to work for them as it was a lot closer to her home so she could reduce commute times.

I found out because I went to netto to do a bit of shopping after getting a 1-1 interview following the group selection, saw her there and had a chat. She was rather upset that I said I just had the interview and got a job and she hadn't even heard back, she was a rather nice lady too and did great in the group selection.

The thing is that asda actually prefer to employ unemployed people over currently employed people all the time. If you currently have a job, the only way to get a job at asda is if they don't have loads of unemployed people who succeed in the group interview. They were rated one of the top 5 employers when I got my job there and it really showed with how well they treated their employees compared to most other retail jobs. However the wage is absolutely dire and they expect their employees to be the best retail staff in the industry ... Not really happening when I can't even afford rent without going bankrupt while working 40 hours a week there.
 
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spankingtexan said:
The scheme is voluntary, that's why a judge ruled it lawful, only problem is that jobcentre staff don't tell you this and say you may lose benefit if you refuse. The girl who took the case to court didn't know it was voluntary and was led to believe she was being forced to do it so the judge rapped the governments knuckles over it. Anyone who refuses and lose benefit should seek legal advice.
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It needs to remain voluntary too....

Forcing wasters to get off their ass will dilute the efforts of the genuine job seekers looking to impress future employers with their work ethic.

The government will get a picture of who's an idle waster too and give them more "help."
 
kitch9 said:
It needs to remain voluntary too....

Forcing wasters to get off their ass will dilute the efforts of the genuine job seekers looking to impress future employers with their work ethic.

The government will get a picture of who's an idle waster too and give them more "help."
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Just pay the minimum wage and stop explioting the poor. The Government will realise as you will you can't treat people in the appalling manner you seem to think is acceptable. Looking forward to the next general election.
 
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XeNoN89 said:
The scheme is a good idea but they should be finding people decent jobs, not a crappy job in poundland
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These schemes could be real good if they were truly designed to help long term unemployed and realistic pay was offered. Unfortunately the scheme now in place does nothing of the sort and the only item on the agenda with this current scheme is to exploit the poor and vulnerable while scrounging companys on the look out for free labour reap the benefits.
 
spankingtexan said:
Just pay the minimum wage and stop explioting the poor. The Government will realise as you will you can't treat people in the appalling manner you seem to think is acceptable. Looking forward to the next general election.
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They are being paid benefits, these schemes need to be offered to the long term unemployed and marketed as a means to add some weight to their CV for potential employees.

Its a fact of life, most employers will be naturally wary of the long term unemployed as they will have other candidates with a more proven track record so there's no way they can compete.

If they can sit in interviews and say they've been doing these schemes to better themselves and prove their worth in the job market then its a decent USP.
 
Stretch said:
What I don't understand is this. If these employers need workers, why don't they just hire someone and pay them minimum wage like others are forced too.

And if they don't need workers, how can the experience ever lead to employment.
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You don't understand why a big business would want workers who they don't have to pay? :confused:
 
kitch9 said:
They are being paid benefits, these schemes need to be offered to the long term unemployed and marketed as a means to add some weight to their CV for potential employees.

Its a fact of life, most employers will be naturally wary of the long term unemployed as they will have other candidates with a more proven track record so there's no way they can compete.

If they can sit in interviews and say they've been doing these schemes to better themselves and prove their worth in the job market then its a decent USP.
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They desreve the going rate for a days work and as a employer yourself you should be offering a fair days pay, it's the law, it really is as simple as that. Why are you so reluctant to offer a fair wage? The long term unemployed are more often than not already seeking work and if they can show they have been active in looking for employment then that should be enough, why should they have to work for scrounging employers on the cheap to impress you?
Maybe it would be better for schemes to be set up for employers not to discriminate against the long term unemployed. Here's hoping the government will get a picture of discriminating employers.
 
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You are only forced to do unpaid work if you signed the bit of paper saying so when you made your JSA claim. Signing this bit of paper is voluntarily (even if the Job Centre jobsworth says otherwise) so if you don't sign it they can't cut your JSA if you refuse to work in Poundland for nothing. A friend did this and has not been forced to work for nothing because of it.

Basically if you ever need to make a JSA claim, you are wise to research and understand your rights before you go to the JSA interview.
 
spankingtexan said:
Just pay the minimum wage and stop explioting the poor. The Government will realise as you will you can't treat people in the appalling manner you seem to think is acceptable. Looking forward to the next general election.
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What about those who can only provide labour that does not justify minimum wage for whatever reason?
 
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