Anti roll bars...

Clarkey

Clarkey

Clarkey

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
18,306
So, my car has a bunch of body roll, as you can see here...
http://batpics.dyndns.org/e/1227/clark3y/tb1236387.jpg

This is despite the fact I have HSD MonoPro coilovers on with 7k front 6.5k+ progressive rear springs. ARBs are stock Avus pack ones, 25.5mm front 18mm rear.

I'm thinking that if I fit eibach ARBs then it will help flatten it out a bit? They are 28mm F 21mm R, adjustable.

I don't want to change the balance of the car as such though, I like it how it is. I often hear people complain their e36's have understeer issues but my front end is glued and have never suffered understeer at all. I do however struggle a bit with oversteer when getting in the power on corner exit. I'm half convinced that the body roll is contributing to this and maybe I would get better traction were there not so much roll.
The conventional argument though is that adding roll stiffness reduces grip, and I don't want that.
Not sure what to do. I suppose I could just go for it, and if it doesn't work out how I want then going back is easy...
 
Could you just fit powerflex ARB bushes in place of the stock ones?

When did you last replace the bushes?
 
Have you lowered it much? Roll centre adjusters can be effective on a McPherson strut if you have the wheel space to put the wishbone back where it should be to offer more roll resistance.
 
I could, and they are what I assume to be original bushes. I don't actually believe that would make any difference though. They are fairly expensive too, and the eibach kit comes supplied with suitable poly bushes.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Have you lowered it much? Roll centre adjusters can be effective on a McPherson strut if you have the wheel space to put the wishbone back where it should be to offer more roll resistance.
Click to expand...

It isn't lowered all that much, I'm about 5mm lower than heights that everybody recommends. I'm not convinced that ride height is a factor, shoes car is much lower than mine and if anything he has less roll, on softer suspension too, that is -200kg on mine though.
 
If your wishbone rests such that its inclined upwards towards the wheel then it offers less roll resistance than pointing down, thats all.

Prob wanna for stiffer ARB with that roll unless you think springs could be beefed up? Is there a progressive variant you can try?
 
I just stuck godspeed anti roll bars on my sx along with new poly droplinks and the difference is night and day.

Go for it, my roll bars were £200 with drop links and are a fanstastic upgrade.
 
Been mucking about with ARB's a bit the season on the race car after suffering from understeer. First thing I would say is that less roll doesn't always mean more grip, I've found this out to my expense.

Go with a tried and tested set-up and take advice from someone who knows about setting up an E36. It's not just about getting a stiffer ARB, it's about getting a package of components (ARB's, springs, shocks, drop links, strut-brace etc) that works well and suits your driving style. Go too stiff/soft in one area and you can ruin the handling.

My FWD car will sometimes be better in corners with the ARB disconnected.
 
how the arms sit
arms.jpg


Track rod looks a bit wacky there but that's at full lock, I don't suffer bump steer anyway so me no carey.
 
As long as you understand what stiffening or softening arbs will do to the handling then go for it, if not read up on it. Generally stiffer rear softer front will give better front end grip I.e more oversteer less understeer and the reverse for harder front softer rear.
 
Is this a track car?

If so I would go with stiffer front/rear as you have said. If you increase them by the same proportion the balance of the car will remain relatively unchanged, but you will have slightly less absolute grip, and more tendency to become unsettled over rough tarmac.

In the interests of handling I would also look at raising that steering rack to match the lowered ride if it is at all possible, or fit some trackrod ends that can be spaced down away from the knuckle to keep the rack level.
 
I did arbs before suspension replacement on my s2k when I had it.

32mm front, 30mm back, combined with a full polybush, front and rear upper and lower strut and brace bars.

The car totally firmed up, flattened out and felt absolutely incredibly.... Really .... Pointy ?

I did these based on my suspension guy recommending it... Get similar advice and go from there
 
HummuH1 said:
Been mucking about with ARB's a bit the season on the race car after suffering from understeer. First thing I would say is that less roll doesn't always mean more grip, I've found this out to my expense.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. Excessive body roll can cause loss of grip through camber changes, but stiff ARB's can also cause loss of grip through excessive loading of the outside tyres.
 
yup, there are plenty of downsides too, another one being the additional damping required to control the arb. the reduced independant wheel movement. it can reduce grip in the wet due to the weight transfer etc

id have a word with a good owners club board to see what they say
 
The eibach arb kit is pretty popular with the more serious track guys, most don't bother due to the cost.
I actually just stumbled upon a used set for an attractive price so I will almost certainly snap them up and give it a go.

As for the spring rates, they can be bumped. For reference, this car has the same coilovers on as mine, but with the front 7k/mm springs replaced with 9k/mm, it looks pretty flat compared with mine.
315977_10150313605391470_1877322797_n.jpg

Springs are cheap but a bit of a faff to change, temped to give that a go also.

I hear people saying to ask online, but with all due respect most of the people don't know what they are talking about, and none of the proper track drivers are willing to give up their setup secrets.
 
one thing i read about when re doing my subframe was the tabs/ears that hold the rear arb bush. those can apparnetly break with an uprated arb at the back but its somethign that only needs a bit of welding to remedy
 
Op you said it yourself increasing roll stiffness reduces grip, if you are serious about sorting the handling of your car then take it to somewhere like Wheels In Motion who will set it up properly. Randomly changing suspension components will get you nowhere.

If you want to have a go yourself and have adjustable suspension, try and soften the rear a touch. Any extra stiffening of the rear will not help your oversteer.
 
Conanius said:
I did arbs before suspension replacement on my s2k when I had it.

32mm front, 30mm back, combined with a full polybush, front and rear upper and lower strut and brace bars.
Click to expand...

32 & 30mm?!

Aren't those like... huge?

I've got 24mm on the back of the STi and I've been told even that is far too big for most for the road.
 
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