Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
The officer may or may not be incompetent. When you have a fraction of a second me make a decision, people need to accept that as humans, mistakes will be made.
Police taser innocent blind man
- Thread starter Twirlywoos
- Start date
The officer may or may not be incompetent. When you have a fraction of a second me make a decision, people need to accept that as humans, mistakes will be made.
Cant believe burnsy is trying to justify this coppers actions, I'm guessing coppers really do look after their own 
The fact you would advocate tasering a person with MH problems is quite frankly shocking. As you should know tasers are not always non-lethal and can kill.
They should be a last resort, not a first as they seem to be. The home office need to review their widespread issue ASAP
The fact you would advocate tasering a person with MH problems is quite frankly shocking. As you should know tasers are not always non-lethal and can kill.
They should be a last resort, not a first as they seem to be. The home office need to review their widespread issue ASAP
You're really over egging the pudding now, the proper course of action would be to announce who you are, give warnings and then when no other alternative, use the tazer to defend yourself or the public from the threat of the perpetrator.
This was an old doddery guy with a white cane, I can hardly see how it was a 'split second' decision making scenario.
i dont agree with the fraction of a second excuse....its an old guy hitting his walking stick on the pavement as he walks, we all know how slow they walk.
the police officer had all the time in the world.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Cant believe burnsy is trying to justify this coppers actions, I'm guessing coppers really do look after their own
I'm not justifying his actions. I'm just saying that the decisions made in the heat of the moment with limited information are difficult. It's not that I'm looking after my own, just that I understand the realities of modern Policing.
Are you suggesting that people with MH problems aren't potentially violent? Because I'd like to disagree if you are.
As can any use of force as the Tomlinson case proved.
Why should they be last resort? Should CS gas be a last resort?
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,280
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Anyone remotely trying to justify what this retarded rozzer did or try to play devils advocate, please leave the room, you're wasting space.
Seriously this uniformed cretin should lose his job and all benefits associated with the police force.
Tazered in the back? Mistook a walking cane for a samurai sword? What the hell?
Whilst the 2 previous strokes may be irrelevant, they certainly won't be if the poor fella has another one as a result of his kerbside electrotherapy and is made worse for it.
I cannot believe how stupid this prat was. How he got to become a copper beggars belief too.
Sheesh!
Seriously this uniformed cretin should lose his job and all benefits associated with the police force.
Tazered in the back? Mistook a walking cane for a samurai sword? What the hell?
Whilst the 2 previous strokes may be irrelevant, they certainly won't be if the poor fella has another one as a result of his kerbside electrotherapy and is made worse for it.
I cannot believe how stupid this prat was. How he got to become a copper beggars belief too.
Sheesh!
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
In a perfect situation I would agree with you, but not all situations are perfect. Perhaps the officer did go overboard, but nobody here was in that situation and doesn't have all the information to make an informed judgement. That's what the IPCC will likely end up doing. My point is that perhaps the pitchforks should be put down until we know the whole picture?
ANY use of force should be the last resort, but that message seems to be lost on the police. I've dealt with hundreds of people who are self harming without resorting to force, and yes MH service users can be violent but why use a taser first?
This can hardly be heat of the moment, an old blind guy walking slowly, doesn't require a split second decision. Maybe it's a training issue, but the police need to learn to use their communication skills (or lack of it it seems at the moment) before resorting to any use of force, maybe a few coppers getting banged up for using unreasonable force (like this case) might remind them of that.
I won't hold my breath
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2006
- Posts
- 1,755
- Location
- Troon
Cant believe burnsy is trying to justify this coppers actions, I'm guessing coppers really do look after their own
The fact you would advocate tasering a person with MH problems is quite frankly shocking. As you should know tasers are not always non-lethal and can kill.
They should be a last resort, not a first as they seem to be. The home office need to review their widespread issue ASAP
Using a taser on a person with MH problems is not shocking if applied in the right situations and is justifiable. Recently I attended an incident when a female in her 50's with serious mental health issues attempted to stab me with a kitchen knife. If I or my colleague were carrying tasers then I wouldn't have hesitated in using it. Yes we did manage to disarm her but only at serious risk of harm to ourselves. Whilst the media are always so quick to report all the negative applications of tasers in the UK you don't hear of all the good ones, good ones that save injury not only to the accused person but also to the cops dealing with the incident.
It's not a question of looking after your own its just often people that aren't in the police don't see it from our point of view. I don't agree with the cops actions in this instance and although I don't know the full circumstances I think he could have approached and dealt with the situation in far better way. I understand the fear of approaching someone when you think they are carrying a weapon but I think he's jumped the gun a bit here.
? ? ?
next sentence you do exactly that
then go on to try and make people understand it from that coppers view
that guy hit the ground pretty hard but lets not go there please
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Any force used by a Police Officer should adhere to PLAN. Proportionate, Legal, Accountable and Necessary. I don't use force that I don't need to.
In what capacity have you dealt with these issues?
Oh, sorry I missed the point where you said you saw this first hand.
Tactical comms are our most effective tool, but some people don't listen. Comms need to always be bidirectional.
Burnsy, I've just left a 10 year career as a prison officer, ive dealt with all sorts of MH incidents, we don't have CS, body armour or Tasers and I have never felt the need to use even an extendable baton. I've worked with the most violent people in the justice system, the most useful to tool is your mouth. The police use of force is shocking compared to HMPS, I've seen videos of police baton charging crowds indiscriminately hitting people, that would never happen on the inside no matter what the situation.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Whilst I respect your time in HMPS, policing is different. People are in a different frame of mind and they have more ready access to potential weapons. I've been in the situation where I've tried the softly softly approach in a MH job and it bit me in the ass. Whilst I'm not going to let this change how I deal with these job necessarily, I am going to be much more cautious.
Just want to chime in and support MrMoonX, I agree with everything he's saying and it's worrying how the police are treating people in the last few years.
Althrough PLAN sounds reasonable, the way you think you should implamented it is were we differ in our opinon. As MoonX said, force should be one of, if not the last resort. Comms or failure of comms needs to established first, you're not the army where you can engage in bringing down the ememy without care. Every person in the UK is under the care of the police, no matter what they are doing. In this case he failed on P and N at the very least.
Althrough PLAN sounds reasonable, the way you think you should implamented it is were we differ in our opinon. As MoonX said, force should be one of, if not the last resort. Comms or failure of comms needs to established first, you're not the army where you can engage in bringing down the ememy without care. Every person in the UK is under the care of the police, no matter what they are doing. In this case he failed on P and N at the very least.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,280
- Location
- Midlands, UK
I'm certainly not anti-police, but this incident really does sound like it was written on 1st April.
The only facts needed to ascertain that this was a completely moronic action by an over-zealous plod was that he tasered the poor guy in the back, without thinking of any other actions to take, ie move in front of him (with taser in hand if necessary) to get his attention.
Was it his ninja-like doddering along the pavement tapping a white stick that confused the coppers perception of the situation?
He even jumped on him and handcuffed him for good measure....nice move, jabroni!
Burnsey, your an OCUK member whom i respect for your honest posting style, but 'attempting' to justify/understand this fools reactions does you a dis-service mate, sorry.
What's dumb, cannot be un-dumb! (think i just made that one up
)
The only facts needed to ascertain that this was a completely moronic action by an over-zealous plod was that he tasered the poor guy in the back, without thinking of any other actions to take, ie move in front of him (with taser in hand if necessary) to get his attention.
Was it his ninja-like doddering along the pavement tapping a white stick that confused the coppers perception of the situation?
He even jumped on him and handcuffed him for good measure....nice move, jabroni!
Burnsey, your an OCUK member whom i respect for your honest posting style, but 'attempting' to justify/understand this fools reactions does you a dis-service mate, sorry.
What's dumb, cannot be un-dumb! (think i just made that one up
)
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 1 Aug 2004
- Posts
- 12,681
- Location
- Tyneside
I'm not referring to this case although it does raise serious questions. I'm more referring to the untrue, almost offensive generalisations of police brutality.
As for your career in the prison service, I agree with you 100% that communication is the best weapon but did it always work for you ? I would imagine not despite your best efforts.
In 12 and a half years service it's failed me four times and I've resorted to incapacitant spray and the proverbial hit the fan before I did because I have to justify discharging a sec 5 prohibited weapon which is what a Taser is also. I am not perfect by a long way but I am not a thug either and I'm not alone in that.
One of those discharges was against a man with mental health issues I might add.