Police taser innocent blind man

[Amnesia]

But as the public won't allow widespread taser issue, what other option did he have?

Run ?
Return with back up ...preferably with firearms support.
Taking the guy on who is armed with a screw driver just seems the wrong choice....having a dead police officer ontop of whatever other crimes the guy would have commited doesn't help in any way.

 

[Xordium]

Run ?
Return with back up ...preferably with firearms support.
Taking the guy on who is armed with a screw driver just seems the wrong choice....having a dead police officer ontop of whatever other crimes the guy would have commited doesn't help in any way.

He was there with backup he got separated from them.
He then found himself unexpectedly confronted.
The article insinuates he acted in self-defence - you don't turn your back on an armed adversary ...
Especially one who you have been tasked with sectioning for being a known dangerous person.

 

[Amnesia]

He was there with backup he got separated from them. and ?
He then found himself unexpectedly confronted. so ?
The article insinuates he acted in self-defence - you don't turn your back on an armed adversary ...

Yes you do if you value your life and want to carry on supporting your family.

Especially one who you have been tasked with sectioning for being a known dangerous person.

No police officer should be expected to take on someone armed using their bare hands.
if someone is armed then let armed officers take care of them.

 

[malfunkshun]

I can only form an opinion based on the information available, but based on that information I can only say that it is my opinion that the police took the wrong action in this instance.
Firstly, remembering that the following is based only on the information I have come across so far, the officer(s) appear not to have identified themselves; secondly they shot him in the back when he appears to have made no effort to confront the officers and thirdly I find it incomprehensible that a trained Police officer, or even a member of the general public could not differentiate between a blind persons cane and a Samurai sword at a distance of 5 metres.
Additionally I find it almost as unbelievable that having neutralised the gentleman that the very next course of action was not to secure the suspected weapon ( or is it policy to neutralise the wielder of a weapon and then leave it laying around?), particularly in light of the suspect repeatedly stating his disability, at which point it would have been immediately apparent that the mistake had been made and applying restraints could have been avoided, reducing further injury and hastening moving the gentleman to the hospital more quickly.

I also note that it appears, and this is based on the limited information available, the man eventually arrested in possession of the real offensive weapon was apprehended without the deployment of an electroshock device.
I will happily be corrected on any matter should more information come to light or in the event that I missed some.

 

[Burnsy2023]

No police officer should be expected to take on someone armed using their bare hands.
if someone is armed then let armed officers take care of them.

That's not quite how Policing here works, we simply don't have enough AFOs to attend every job that may or may not have a weapon. Also, you often don't know they are violent or armed until they attack you.

 

[Glaucus]

Additionally I find it almost as unbelievable that having neutralised the gentleman that the very next course of action was not to secure the suspected weapon ( or is it policy to neutralise the wielder of a weapon and then leave it laying around?), particularly in light of the suspect repeatedly stating his disability, at which point it would have been immediately apparent that the mistake had been made and applying restraints could have been avoided, reducing further injury and hastening moving the gentleman to the hospital more quickly.
.

This part is rubbish. And officers know in such a situation they don't have more weapons? You restrain the person first, even them shouting I'm blind, doesn't mean they are blind.

 

[malfunkshun]

This part is rubbish. And officers know in such a situation they don't have more weapons? You restrain the person first, even them shouting I'm blind, doesn't mean they are blind.

Immediately stating it as rubbish, in spite of me repeatedly stating that I am basing my opinion on the information that I have, is a bit harsh no?

Anyway

Equally how do you know the person doesn't have a mate nearby who will pick up said weapon? I would agree, in general, but in the case being discussed there were multiple officers (I do not know how many) so the question would be were there enough officers to restrain a man who is not resisting and to secure the object?

 

[zenf]

Well it certainly doesn't look good for the officer... While it's true that we don't know all the facts, I find it hard to believe that all officers act perfectly all the time, and this is really looking like he's made a pretty serious mistake.

I just hope that if he is found to be incompetant, he faces the punishment he deserves. If not, well, it's not that surprising that we have incidents like the Tottenham riots after the Mark Duggan shooting. I'm not saying that the police were wrong in that case or that the riots were justified or anything like that, but the police need to be visibily held accountable for their mistakes (like everyone else) or there'll be a backlash.

E: Just in case my post comes across as being anti-police, I'm really not. You guys do a very difficult job and you have my utmost respect and thanks.

 

[Amnesia]

That's not quite how Policing here works, we simply don't have enough AFOs to attend every job that may or may not have a weapon.

Fair point but in this case AFO's were there

The officer had been deployed to assist social services and firearms officers in sectioning the man under the mental health act in November 2010.

Also, you often don't know they are violent or armed until they attack you.

Again fair point but in this case

The man turned to face him, brandishing a screwdriver, telling him: "You're going to die."

 

[Xordium]

Yes you do if you value your life and want to carry on supporting your family.

No police officer should be expected to take on someone armed using their bare hands.
if someone is armed then let armed officers take care of them.

And yet he was confronted in an alley ... do you expect him to turn his back on an armed person or employ what measures he has in self-defense to protect himself.

So let me ask you a hypothetical question:

You are confronted by someone in an alley who has a screwdriver and is close enough to use it and makes the threat they are going to kill you. All the while you know this person is dangerous enough to carry out that threat.

Do you:

a) Use the CS spray you have secreted on you whilst keeping an eye on the movements of the armed and dangerous person.
b) Turn your back on the armed person so you can't see when they are going to stab you.
c) Say 'Tell you what old boy you wait there for a mo whilst I radio in for help" ...

 

[Amnesia]

And yet he was confronted in an alley ... do you expect him to turn his back on an armed person or employ what measures he has in self-defense to protect himself.

So let me ask you a hypothetical question:

You are confronted by someone in an alley who has a screwdriver and is close enough to use it and makes the threat they are going to kill you. All the while you know this person is dangerous enough to carry out that threat.

Do you:

a) Use the CS spray you have secreted on you whilst keeping an eye on the movements of the armed and dangerous person.
b) Turn your back on the armed person so you can't see when they are going to stab you.
c) Say 'Tell you what old boy you wait there for a mo whilst I radio in for help" ...

d) Run for your life

if im a police officer remember i can run far faster for a longer period than the average joe...thats why very few people would be able to out run us.

 

[andi]

They weren't there though. A violent, armed, mentally unstable man cannot be allowed to run around until you an AFO arrives, he dealt with the situation as best he could with the limited options available to him. If he was equipped with taser he probably wouldn't have been injured at all. That was my point.

This isn't a one off, unarmed officers deal with armed criminals every day.

 

[Xordium]

d) Run for your life

if im a police officer remember i can run far faster for a longer period than the average joe...thats why very few people would be able to out run us.

So that is not d) that is b) To run you'd have to turn your back on an armed person who you were in close proximity to. Yer, that sounds like a champion idea.

 

[Amnesia]

They weren't there though. A violent, armed, mentally unstable man cannot be allowed to run around until you an AFO arrives, he dealt with the situation as best he could with the limited options available to him. If he was equipped with taser he probably wouldn't have been injured at all. That was my point.

This isn't a one off, unarmed officers deal with armed criminals every day.

and you think a single officer engaging him was a good idea ?

 

[Amnesia]

So that is not d) that is b) To run you'd have to turn your back on an armed person who you were in close proximity to. Yer, that sounds like a champion idea.

no it isn't it's d)
where does it say that the police officer couldn't get away from the patient ?
wasn't the whole point of him being named the most courageous police officer in England and Wales because he chased him down and took him on even though he was armed with a screw driver.


it was his choice...his courage

 

[andi]

and you think a single officer engaging him was a good idea ?

Until we man up and equip officers to deal with it in a better way, there isn't much choice. Running away and letting someone like that get away is not really an option.

if im a police officer remember i can run far faster for a longer period than the average joe...thats why very few people would be able to out run us.

 

[Amnesia]

Until we man up and equip officers to deal with it in a better way, there isn't much choice. Running away and letting someone like that get away is not really an option.

yet you avoided the question

he caught the guy ....do you not think he could run away from him also ?

 

[Xordium]

no it isn't it's d)
where does it say that the police officer couldn't get away from the patient ?
wasn't the whole point of him being named the most courageous police officer in England and Wales because he chased him down and took him on even though he was armed with a screw driver.

it was his choice...his courage

And where exactly did it say he could get away from him. The article said the guy had stopped.

To run away he would have had to turn his back on an armed person.
To run away he would have left a very dangerous person to harm members of the public.
He made a split-second decision and probably expected to get ripped apart afterwards by a number of people with the benefit of hindsight. But I would wager you would more likely get a good outcome as a general rule if you CS a person wielding a screwdriver compared to turning your back on them.
No the point was he got the award because he did something brave, even if circumstances demanded, and got injured as a result. That's how you get awards and medals.

 

[andi]

Was it a good idea? I think it's the only option he had available to him. He shouldn't have had to do it, but I'd like to think I'd have done the same. Is that a good enough answer?

Physically, he possibly could have outrun him, yes. It was your idea that all place officers can run fast for miles on end and no one can get away from them I was referring to really, not quite how it works in real life.

 

[Amnesia]

And where exactly did it say he could get away from him. The article said the guy had stopped.

The officer used CS spray on the man, but he continued walking so he struck him on the leg.

im guessing he continued walking at him...so there was a distance and if he didn't walk at him then the guy was creating a distance between the two of them.


did you really need someone to point that out to you...seriously ?