Might need to switch to a diesel - what's what these days?

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 09:28

Morning guys. So, I currently own a Lexus IS200 which has been a great car. It's quite infamous for being the car with terrible fuel economy and not enough power to make up for it - while this is true, I was doing such low mileage (6000 per year) that it really didn't bother me.
However, my girlfriend lives in Reading and I'm at the final stage of a really good new job opportunity. The commute for this isn't huge but there's a fair but of driving around multiple offices in south Devon. I anticipate that my mileage could easily be up around the 25k mark if I got the job across a mix of town and a roads. So, I'm thinking a mid sized diesel hatch of some sort would be appropriate... A few years ago I was quite familiar with the common faults and general reliability of various diesel engines, but these days I'm a bit out of touch, so looking for some pointers. Budget is probably about 7k, I've thought about

-Honda Civic 2.2 - like these a lot, should be reliable?
-BMW 120d - budget a bit low to get a good one?
-Golf or it's many siblings - Leon looks to be the best for the money here, but how are those 2.0 PD engines fairing a few years down the line?
-Astra 1.9 - the one motors will hate, but the value for money seems great in terms age/spec/mileage for the money and they look good in 3 doors
-Focus 2.0 - the sensible choice I think?
-Mazda 3 - really like these but budget is too low to get the new shape I think.

I could up the budget if there's a really compelling reason, but I'm also looking at moving to a bigger house so the money is probably better spent there.

Tesla · 21 Oct 2012 at 09:35

Last year I was doing loads of miles, about 50k per year.

I bought a Mk4 Mondeo Titanium X Estate. 2.0 TDCi. I paid £7300. It was a 2008, '58.
It had 101k miles on it when I bought it.

It was an excellent car all round. I could only fault the build quality of the centre console. It was really cheap and creaked a lot. Odd as other plastics inside were of excellent quality. The diesel engine and ancillieries are supposedly fairly reliable. You need to consider that any modern diesel has several highly stressed expensive components and at 25k miles per year if these fail it'd wipe out most savings other running your is200.

I strongly recommend looking at one.

However, what does the IS200 get on a run? It's a I6 isn't it? Will this new employer pay a mileage allowance? If you're looking to upsize your home perhaps keeping the is200 and claiming your mileage back is a better option?

I don't own the Mondeo any more and only put 20k miles on it before selling due to a change in work. I sold it for £7100 plus an old tatty Mk2 Mondeo in P/X. I used this old Mondeo as a builders van when doing up a property then scrapped it for £150. So quite happy with the end result.

The only car I know anything about on your list is the Mazda 3. £7k isn't enough to get you the latest shape really. They are essentialy the same car as a Focus but I prefer the interior and exterior styling of the Mazda. My brother bought one a few months back. The sport is the model to go for. I don't know how the diesel is though as my brother and I only looked at petrols.

Also, someone could clarify but I think a ~£7k Focus would be a model with the older diesel lump in it? The one that eats DMF's for breakfast?

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 09:49

The mk4 mondeo is something we have at work so I've driven. It's a titanium x with a diesel of some sort - its utterly gutless so might be a 1.8? I really didn't like it - I've previously owned a mk3 and the mk4 really doesn't feel the same. Is that the same 2.0 as the focus gets though?

The IS is an I6 yeah - on a run it's in the 30s which is pretty poor. The problem is the driving for this job will be a mix of town and A roads, so not optimal for fuel. I actually brimmed it yesterday so I could measure it properly across a mix of roads - never done it with this car and it only has an instantaneous MPG needle. Once I've done that I'll sit down and work out what it costs me per mile compared to something like the above.

The job would pay mileage at the standard inland revenue rate (40p ish I believe these days). Even fuel on the Lexus is probably 25p per mile. I do need to add it up - suspect it might just about break even for the work driving. But by the time I add the commute (which obviously isn't paid) and other personal driving then I suspect it might make sense. A trip to reading from Exeter to see the mrs is costing a ton at the moment, that's going to be closer to 50 with one of the above

Edit, very rough napkin sketch calculation:

Lexus Diesel
Fuel - 25k Miles £6,223.60 £3,684.60
Service and MOT £400.00 £200.00
Tyres/Consumables £400.00 £300.00
Insurance £500.00 £300.00
Repairs/Warranty £800.00 £500.00
Mileage Claim (15k) £6,000.00 £6,000.00
Finance £0.00 £1,800.00
Total £14,323.60 £12,784.60

Apologies for the formatting, pasted from excel. Thats assuming 25mpg for the Lexus and 45mpg for the diesel. Most of these cars would be 1 service per year and the Lexus needs 2. I'd probably lump a bit on finance - got an annual bonus coming from my current job and trade in on the Lexus, so thats to make up the difference. Its better being financed over 2 years than taking it from savings which effectively puts it on the mortgage. Repairs on the Lexus higher due to cost of parts and mileage, I'd probably look for a comprehensive warranty on a diesel if possible.
The only thing I've not considered would be depreciation - this is because its an indirect cost and it entirely depends when I decide to sell each of the cars in question.

Tesla · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:13

Ford do/did offer a 1.8 Mondeo. I read that the 1.8 is quite different to drive than the 2.0 but have no experience of it. I know the is200 isn't the most powerful car in the world but they are nice to drive, with a really smooth power delivery and will always show up a 4-pot diesel for being what it really is.

I expect a diesel would save you ~£2k in fuel over running your Lexus for 25k miles. Will be interesting to work out!

The older Mk2 /2.5 Focus has the same diesel engine as the Mk3 Mondeo. I'd never consider one of these as certain expensive parts are just not good enough quality (the usual culprits of DMF/injectors/fuel pump). I don't know what £7k gets you in the form of a Ford Focus. I'd only consider one if it had the newer diesel engine as per the current Mondeo (made by PSA).

When I was looking into the Mondeo last year and researching diesels I rarely found a bad word against the 2.2 Honda offering so the Civic may not be a bad shout! Perhaps consider an Accord too?

Howard · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:16

iaind said:
A trip to reading from Exeter to see the mrs is costing a ton at the moment, that's going to be closer to 50 with one of the above

When you say a ton, do you mean £100? £100 to do 300 odd miles? Or a ton as in a ton of money?

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:21

Yeah it must have been a 1.8, it really was terrible. You're right, the IS isnt the most powerful car but is great fun in the right situations and is more than capable.

See my edit above - by the time I knock off the few k of my bonus that I'd spend on it, its probably breaking even. I'd be getting something newer, but maybe not any better. If I dropped the budget closer to 5k it would start to make more sense, not sure what I could get for that though.

We've got a Civic 2.2 at work as well - the engine really is a corker for a diesel, very petrol like in it's power delivery. Not the most economic compared to it's peers but very reliable. Love the styling of the Civic too. The accord would probably be a bit cheaper to buy, but I dont know if the larger car would do so well on the mixed sort of journeys that this job would entail. Plus, the Civic is quite chuckable so would still give some driving enjoyment. I did have a Mk3 2.0 TDCi and it didnt cause me any real problems (DMF needed doing but that was the only fault in the 2 years I owned it) - but that was back when they were 60k 4 year old cars

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:22

Howard said:
When you say a ton, do you mean £100? £100 to do 300 odd miles? Or a ton as in a ton of money?

Yep - I'll fill the tank for about £80 and need to put more in it before I get home. Thats with some town driving while I'm there though, which I think is what really kills it

Tinders · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:31

iaind said:
Yeah it must have been a 1.8, it really was terrible. You're right, the IS isnt the most powerful car but is great fun in the right situations and is more than capable.

See my edit above - by the time I knock off the few k of my bonus that I'd spend on it, its probably breaking even. I'd be getting something newer, but maybe not any better. If I dropped the budget closer to 5k it would start to make more sense, not sure what I could get for that though.

We've got a Civic 2.2 at work as well - the engine really is a corker for a diesel, very petrol like in it's power delivery. Not the most economic compared to it's peers but very reliable. Love the styling of the Civic too. The accord would probably be a bit cheaper to buy, but I dont know if the larger car would do so well on the mixed sort of journeys that this job would entail. Plus, the Civic is quite chuckable so would still give some driving enjoyment. I did have a Mk3 2.0 TDCi and it didnt cause me any real problems (DMF needed doing but that was the only fault in the 2 years I owned it) - but that was back when they were 60k 4 year old cars

Accord in your budget would be a 2006 model (4-5k) and they were the better engined car, the 2005 engine had a problem with the oil pump chain, which would catastrophic failure when it went. Accord is a much nicer car imo, but the Civic is pretty practical.

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:37

Tinders said:
Accord in your budget would be a 2006 model (4-5k) and they were the better engined car, the 2005 engine had a problem with the oil pump chain, which would catastrophic failure when it went. Accord is a much nicer car imo, but the Civic is pretty practical.

Few reasons for Civic > Accord

- I'm not after a saloon (being able to fold seats down for tip runs, big boxes etc is invaluable) so it's hatch or estate. Accord estates a bit more expensive and massive
- Styling isnt something that bothers me too much, but the Civic inside and out really appeals
- The fun factor mentioned above

Saying that, if the accords are 4-5k then the numbers start to make much more sense... Hmmmmmmm

Tinders · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:44

Thats the age to avoid imo, you are leaving yourself open to big bill s, the bottom end will be toast if the chains gone, 55 plate onwards is where you should look imo.

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 10:46

Tinders said:
Thats the age to avoid imo, you are leaving yourself open to big bill s, the bottom end will be toast if the chains gone, 55 plate onwards is where you should look imo.

Ah, sorry I misread, thought you meant the later ones were worse

This sort of thing then? Higher mileage, but thats not necessarily a bad thing

Tinders · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:07

Thats a billy bargain, looks too good to be true!

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:11

Tinders said:
Thats a billy bargain, looks too good to be true!

I've heard reports of that garage being dodgy as hell but it shows there are cars out there.

Is it odd that I'm beginning to worry MORE about my image as I get older? At 18 I was driving a diesel mk1 mondeo and didn't care. Now I'm 27 and am seriously spending more money on a 3 door hatch because it's cooler.

Ev0 · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:15

With your mileage figures remember the HMRC rate (currently 45p a mile) is only applicable for the first 10k business mileage, it then drops to 25p a mile.

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:18

Ev0 said:
With your mileage figures remember the HMRC rate (currently 45p a mile) is only applicable for the first 10k business mileage, it then drops to 25p a mile.

Aah forgot about that. Makes more sense to do this if I take that into account. Cheers

[TW]Fox · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:20

I wouldn't bother with the car for Reading. It's 2 hours direct by train from Exeter and cheaper than the fuel you would use. I gave up driving to my girlfriends and do the same, get to sit and browse the web and watch movies etc.

Reading to Exeter is 100% 125mph HSTs as well so probably even faster than the car.

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:22

[TW]Fox;23001694 said:
I wouldn't bother with the car for Reading. It's 2 hours direct by train from Exeter and cheaper than the fuel you would use. I gave up driving to my girlfriends and do the same, get to sit and browse the web and watch movies etc.

Considered that a few times, it's about 60 quid return iirc. But I'm nowhere near the station in Exeter so by the time I park down there I'm only about a tender better off

Dale V · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:24

ever thought about LPG for the lexus?

iaind · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:30

Dale V said:
ever thought about LPG for the lexus?

Crossed my mind and I was asking my mechanic friend about it on Friday night. He made a very valid point that - why don't manufacturers do it as standard? His view was that I'd probably be needing a new/reworked head shortly after the cost broke even. In principal it seems like a good idea as it really is a cracking car and I got a real bargain buying it

Dale V · 21 Oct 2012 at 11:37

Why would you need a reworked head? Valve seat recession is an issue with some engines on LPG, but a Flashlube kit that drips oil into the manifold sorts that out... Theres plenty of Lexus's with LPG that have been run for 100k+ with no issue.

I've had my LS400 converted and an Audi A4 3.0 cab, its as smooth as running on petrol, no loss in power and costs 64p a litre.

Infact ive just broke even with mine, had it converted in May, done 8000 miles.