National Insurance and the NHS

MrFeathers · 31 Oct 2012 at 09:53

dont be such a selfish brat, one day you might need the NHS and at least you know they will treat you without having to worry if your insurance policy covers you

ethan · 31 Oct 2012 at 10:02

Tefal said:
Nope my pics in the BB thread if you want to check, but it's not hate it's just people saying "oh if it's because of those actions they should pay" then yea sports injuries and long term complications are a huge cost. You don't need to play foot ball to be healthy

Tbh Tefal I have no problem with professional sports paying if that is what you mean. But it appears to be the general accident crowd that are clogging the accident and emergencey units not people who are necessarily doing sports. It's ridiculous, three month wait for physio because someone's fell off a ladder or tripped on a kerb when you have a torn rotator cuff.

starfighter · 31 Oct 2012 at 10:24

I am happy to pay tax for the NHS.

Energize · 31 Oct 2012 at 10:54

NI is just income tax by another name. No way to opt out of it I'm afraid, we're all subject to our money being squandered.

The way money is wasted in the NHS is shocking, I was taken by ambulance to hospital after a minor bump on the head only to be dumped in a bed for a few hours unmonitored, I'm not quite sure what I was waiting for as it was never explained and I left after seeing no one had looked in on me when I returned from greggs.

mysticsniper · 31 Oct 2012 at 11:51

Just look at America, when you have any healthcare that looks at making a profit over patients care, your going to have problems.

Take a look at the Michael Moore documentry called "Sicko". Where a man had private health insurance and he had 5 fingers chopped off, but could only afford to have 2 sown back on! :eek:

RDM · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:18

NHS threads are great, it seems our choices are the glorious (yet at the same time seemingly mediocre) NHS or the hell that is the US system.

LordSplodge · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:21

acemastr said:
You see, people don't understand it. You'd pay for your own insurance, which would be considerably less than NI.

Perhaps for healthy people. For the disabled and long term sick like myself? No chance.

Providing free at the point of entry health care should be admired. The American way is broken.

RDM · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:28

LordSplodge said:
Providing free at the point of entry health care should be admired.

It's a shame we don't do that though. Even if you ignore dentistry then prescription charges cost a whopping £500m a year.

MrMoonX · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:30

realBabelfish said:
not to mention the 30 tory MPs who stand to make a fortune if the NHS dies. conflict of interest much?

exactly why we cant trust politicians with the NHS, the NHS bill that the sheep all voted through was buried in a day of bad press, its shocking what its going to do to the NHS, whilst handing millions to Virgin Health. If people ever needed to riot it should be over this.

LordSplodge · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:32

gobbo said:
What do you set a "nominal fee" at and what happens if you can't afford it?

What about people who need to see their GP regularity?

FishFluff · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:33

[TW]Fox;23068532 said:
No, it isn't considerably less than NI at all. Medical insurance in the US is hugely expensive.

You also missed off the best part which is that US Health Insurance companies usually only pay a percentage of the costs and it's always a battle to get them to do even that.

Anyone who thinks the US health system is great needs to do more research. I'd rather some of my NI went on supporting "freeloaders" than be saddled with crippling debt if ever I need my life saving.

Energize · 31 Oct 2012 at 12:35

RDM said:
It's a shame we don't do that though. Even if you ignore dentistry then prescription charges cost a whopping £500m a year.

Indeed the cost of generic medications on the NHS is most expensive compared to private health care.

Freefaller · 31 Oct 2012 at 13:02

I quite like the system in France where it's means tested. Depending on how much you earn you contribute a certain amount to your health insurance a bit like NI, if you're rich you pay more contributions for your health care - it's a sliding scale.

You basically claim a certain amount of reimbursement from the insurance company.

I believe the healthcare system in France is pretty good.

xarr · 31 Oct 2012 at 14:29

FishFluff said:
You also missed off the best part which is that US Health Insurance companies usually only pay a percentage of the costs and it's always a battle to get them to do even that.

Anyone who thinks the US health system is great needs to do more research. I'd rather some of my NI went on supporting "freeloaders" than be saddled with crippling debt if ever I need my life saving.

Yup this is the most crazy part. I read the blog of a Texan ICU nurse who recently had a polymorphous low-grade adenocarcinoma (a tumor of the salivary glands in the back of your mouth) that necessitated removing much of the palate in the roof of her mouth. She needed something called an obturator and I'll let her explain what happened;

For those of you coming in late, the prosthetic I wear to replace my palate/protect my airway/allow me to eat, drink and talk was not paid for by insurance. Given that the whole process cost as much as a new car [Hyundai, not Mercedes], I was a little peeved by that, especially given that the insurance company [Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Texas] first denied that it was medically necessary, then failed to follow their own rules on covering prosthetics.

http://head-nurse.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/hi-my-name-is-jo-and-i-am-totally.html

Now they have reimbursed her for this, but only at 80%, so even if the thing only cost $20,000 (estimate using her Hyundai example) she would still be $4000 out of pocket, plus the heap of other things her insurance wouldn't cover. Bear in mind she has good insurance, a stable job and a good head on her shoulders what the hell! You have the roof of your mouth cut out and then you have to argue (with considerable fervour) to get some cash for something which most would say is essential. Lord help you if you arn't bright enough to argue your case.

People who want a US based system really do not understand it and how it can bankrupt a large portion of the population. Unless you have a considerable personal fortune a serious illness will leave you with large debts where as in the UK it might cost you a few quid in parking charges and maybe the odd prescription.

A French style co-pay system is certainly worth investigating but perhaps we should just take a pragmatic view of healthcare and say we can't save everyone, we can't cure everything and if we could, should we? In my eyes its the next big debate (past two centuries-ish its been about equality in one form or another), now it needs to be about how we approach the right to life, given that we already have the ability to sustain life with machines and medication, it needs to be about should we and when this is appropriate, otherwise we risk more and more cases like this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19873175

Were we keep alive a corpse with little to no hope of meaningful recovery. I really still fail to understand people who hate the NHS, yes its not perfect, no system is, but given the quality of the service vs cost I think we are at a good place that is always improving. For those of you complaining about paying for private medical if you need to use it for anything serious they pretty quickly back out when the going gets tough. BUPA's policy document (http://to.ly/gxKS) lists 34 exclusions including chronic conditions, intensive care stays, rehab placements over 21 days, pre-existing conditions, medication to take home or dialysis. Of course if you need any of this it will be provided, free of charge (or little charge for prescriptions) by the NHS. Still want to opt out of NI payments with all those holes in your cover?