RAC/Garage woes - Where do I stand?

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Possibly, but equally you might be 'showing your hand' too early and if they do agree you get a full refund. If they call you on this first round you've got little ground to fall back on except legal action. If you go in initially for a full refund and they play hardball you can at least suggest paying for the parts as a compromise.

Maybe I'm just a stubborn **** :p
 
Possibly, but equally you might be 'showing your hand' too early and if they do agree you get a full refund. If they call you on this first round you've got little ground to fall back on except legal action. If you go in initially for a full refund and they play hardball you can at least suggest paying for the parts as a compromise.

Maybe I'm just a stubborn **** :p

I 100% agree, go for the full refund.
I'd be wanting a full refund in this situation anyway.
 
I agree with what the others have said, and would just like to add that there is no point at all in threatening, or indeed actually, sending your documents to CAB. They wont want it and they wont do anything with it
 
Okay guys - I just picked up my car from my normal garage. The entire problem was caused by a leak on the rubber bit of the slave cylinder.

Which "rubber bit"? The main hydraulic seals, the flexible hose, the dust seal?

A leak on any of these items would not cause the symptoms you reported i.e. clutch slipping. If the slave had partially seized and wasn't returning fully then I could understand it.

As the others said, start with the full refund, as far as you're concerned the job was wrong full stop.

In which case the garage should be given the opportunity to refit the old parts. I think a full labour refund is quite fair, the OP has ended up with a brand new clutch after all.
 
A leak on any of these items would not cause the symptoms you reported i.e. clutch slipping. If the slave had partially seized and wasn't returning fully then I could understand it.

If you contaminate the clutch friction material with fluid it will - which is exactly what happened on my old 1500 FWD. Leaky slave, fluid got onto the clutch, began to slip progressively worse as time went on.
 
In which case the garage should be given the opportunity to refit the old parts. I think a full labour refund is quite fair, the OP has ended up with a brand new clutch after all.

I agree with the 'opportunity to refit the old parts' bit. However, if they had diagnosed the problem correctly in the first place they wouldn't have fitted a new clutch in the first place.

It's not like the OP walked in, demanded a new clutch and is now trying to get a refund because that didn't fix the problem; he was relying on the RAC and the garage to find the fault and fix it for him.
 
Which "rubber bit"? The main hydraulic seals, the flexible hose, the dust seal?

A leak on any of these items would not cause the symptoms you reported i.e. clutch slipping. If the slave had partially seized and wasn't returning fully then I could understand it.

I agree, the symptoms described would not happen with a leaky slave cylinder. If the master cylinder was "staying pressurised" ie it was jamming the leaky slave might be another symptom.

If as Lashout says that slave cylinder had leaked onto the clutch, then that would be OBVIOUS from the clutch plate and it WOULD be trashed, so you would have still needed a new clutch, so no refund would be in order.

However, slave cylinders are usually low mounted and outside the clutch bell, so a leaky slave cylinder is highly unlikely to contaminate a clutch (they are designed like this on purpose for just such an occurrence), I think on the old 1500 FWD the slave cylinder was inside the clutch bell, so a different situation altogether.
 
If you contaminate the clutch friction material with fluid it will - which is exactly what happened on my old 1500 FWD. Leaky slave, fluid got onto the clutch, began to slip progressively worse as time went on.

As Dr Who says, the contamination should be pretty obvious and the old clutch has apparently been inspected and found to be fine. I doubt the OP's car (what is it?) has a concentric slave if the second garage managed to diagnose a leak without removing the gearbox anyway.
 
Symptom #1 (The first and inital RAC call out):
Clutch slipping to excess, car over revving althought going in and out of gear fine. Car wasn't getting over 25mph in 2nd gear.

Symptom #2 (Second RAC call out):
After having clutch replaced, car had exact same symptoms as above. Master cylinder was replaced.

Symptom #3 (Third RAC call out):
After picking up the car from the garage the day after symptom #1, the clutch pedal felt soft with little tension in. It slowly got worse and worse to the point it was impossible to move the gear stick into any gear, unless the engine was off.

The car is a Hyundai Accent 1.3 (2002). The slave cylinder is seperate from the gear box. Afaik it's a couple of bolts through the bonnet (and maybe underneath) to get it off.

The old clutch had no cause of leaks. The damage they claim to have found was marks on the pressure plate (which are, i'm told by other garages, completely normal).
 
I agree, the symptoms described would not happen with a leaky slave cylinder. If the master cylinder was "staying pressurised" ie it was jamming the leaky slave might be another symptom.

If as Lashout says that slave cylinder had leaked onto the clutch, then that would be OBVIOUS from the clutch plate and it WOULD be trashed, so you would have still needed a new clutch, so no refund would be in order.

However, slave cylinders are usually low mounted and outside the clutch bell, so a leaky slave cylinder is highly unlikely to contaminate a clutch (they are designed like this on purpose for just such an occurrence), I think on the old 1500 FWD the slave cylinder was inside the clutch bell, so a different situation altogether.

What?

No, most slave cylinders are now concentric, and any leak will go straight all over the clutch plate.

External slaves are usually on older cars. What's the make and model of the car in question, so we can clear it up?

I'm betting it's a concentric slave, as they're more common than you think.
 
What?

No, most slave cylinders are now concentric, and any leak will go straight all over the clutch plate.

External slaves are usually on older cars. What's the make and model of the car in question, so we can clear it up?

I'm betting it's a concentric slave, as they're more common than you think.

If its a concentric it's still a gearbox out job to swap, which would mean a new clutch plate would be going in anyway (as covered in oil), and no change to the labour costs. We have already established the clutch plate was clean, so cannot be a leaking concentric slave cylinder ALL the symptoms and parts diagnosed describe a faulty master cylinder which is holding pressure and not allowing the slave to decompress, the only other explanation could be the slave sticking, a weeping slave cylinder that has not contaminated the clutch plate does no add up. A weeping slave that has not contaminated the clutch plate would not give a slipping clutch. So as I previously stated, the symptoms described do not match a leaky slave (taking into account the clean clutch plate).

Maybe read the whole thread rather than single out one post in isolation then you would see that the car is a 2002 Accent?

And yes I know many slaves are concentric, but they are attached to the gearbox face and unless leaking heavily usually just let the fluid drip down the gearbox face and out the bottom. If the piston seal has gone it is possible to then contaminate the plate but that would again be shown on the clutch plate.


https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/au...linders/clutch_slave_cylinder.html?3593=81986

Not concentric :p
 
Drafted a letter, comments and criticism please;

Dear Sir/Madam,

On the morning of Thursday 1st November, my vehicle (Reg. ---) was recovered by the RAC to your garage. It had symptoms of a slipping clutch, which was causing the car to be unable to travel over 25mph and over-rev.

The RAC patrolman and yourselves were made aware that the vehicle was fitted with a new clutch only five months prior to the breakdown. However, you diagnosed that the clutch had been fitted incorrectly and that it was necessary for it to be replaced immediately. The old components, including the clutch plate, pressure plate and cylinder were returned to me on my request. The work carried out here came to a total of £412.83.

That evening, after having picked up the vehicle from you, I travelled a mere fifteen miles on my way home, before the car broke down again; suffering from the same symptoms. The vehicle was once again recovered to your garage by the RAC at 7pm.

The following day, Friday 2nd November, I was told the problem was now that the master cylinder was faulty and that it also needed replacing. Reluctantly, I agreed to have the work done that day as I was fifty miles away from home and was missing both work and important family matters. I appreciate that I was given a courtesy car for this reason, however making two journeys a day up and down the M23 and A27 to liaise with you was not realistic. This work added an extra £75 onto the top of what I had already paid you.

After being told that the master cylinder was now the problem, I became very doubtful of your initial diagnosis, and promptly contacted the original garage who fitted the clutch five months ago. They were, and remain adamant that it is not possible to incorrectly fit the clutch, and have also stated after inspecting it that they have found no visible damage to the clutch, nor any reason for the clutch to be taken out and then removed permanently from the car. I have enclosed the original invoice for the clutch being fitted, their report and a cover letter the garage requested to be inserted.

I subsequently searched for an independent inspection of the component. NAME inspected the clutch and have written a report on their findings (please see enclosed report), and have also found the clutch to have no visible damage nor reason for it to be removed or replaced.

Upon collecting my vehicle from you the second time around, I was informed that you had done, and I quote; "an extended road test of ten to fifteen miles towards Bognor Regis". This extended road test was to ensure that the problem with the master cylinder you had diagnosed would not replicate again due to distance travelled. However, before leaving my car with you the previous night, I photographed my mileage. The two photographs enclosed with this letter, are evidence that the car only travelled less than four miles (part of which was caused by myself moving away from your garage before taking the second photograph) on the second road test, well under what you claimed to have done. The two computer screenshots attached to these photographs show the date and time the photographs were taken.

On Friday 9th November 2012, my vehicle broke down once again. Another RAC call out was used, however this time the vehicle was recovered to my usual garage. I communicated to you that the vehicle was showing problems again, and your employee made it clear the following day that you would be unable to pick up the vehicle due to my location being within the low emissions zone of London.

Within two hours of my vehicle being at the garage on Friday 9th November, the problem was diagnosed and fixed. Their findings were a hydraulic leak on the rubber seal of the slave cylinder. Since this fix, the vehicle has been showing none of the original symptoms and has been driving perfectly.

I believe the work carried out on Thursday 1st November 2012 was completely unnecessary. I also believe that had you have completed a thorough, comprehensive diagnosis on the vehicle when it was initially recovered, I would not be out of pocket to the tune of £483, the total for parts and labour of the replacement of the clutch and master cylinder. I find it entirely immoral that you should pick the most expensive and labour consuming problem first, before testing to see if the problem was arising from a more simple and accessible fault elsewhere.

For this reason, I am formally requesting the refund of the work carried out on both dates as it neither fixed the problem nor made the car any more reliable. The total of both invoices comes to £483.

If you are unwilling to cooperate on this matter, it will be my intention to make a formal complaint to both the RAC regarding your Approved Garage status, and trading standards. It will also be my intention to escalate the matter to the small claims court.

Please do not reply to this letter by telephone, instead only reply by writing.



Yours sincerely,

Rob Smith
 
far too long for one thing. Should be 1/3 at most!

'out of pocket to the tune of' - too colloquial.

I appreciate that I was given a courtesy car for this reason, however making two journeys a day up and down the M23 and A27 to liaise with you was not realistic. This work added an extra £75 onto the top of what I had already paid you.
bolded - irrelevant. Last sentence - out of order ie doesn't follow from previous sentence.

"For this reason" - What reason? You can't start a para like that.

I find it entirely immoral that you should pick the most expensive and labour consuming problem first, before testing to see if the problem was arising from a more simple and accessible fault elsewhere.
subjective, antagonistic, irrelevant. Do you know what testing they did? No. So the rest of that quote is speculation as well.

Dont start Dear Sir and and Sincerely. That's letter writing '101' (to use an americanism)!

On the whole, a poor letter imo.

What you should have done is a bite more like this,
You, [the garage], did x,y,z on dates a,b,c. It is put to you that your diagnosis/es were so inaccurate as to cause unnecessary costs. I am therefore seeking reimbursement for the unnecessary cost. I believe they were unnecessary because 1/2/3.

Should this matter not be resolved in 14 days I will proceed with a small claims action. I may bring up photo evidence showing you were not truthful on X, and I will rely on documentary evidence obtained from Y stating that Z.
Isn't that much quicker?

Anyway, I guess it's a bit late now!
 
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Hey guys,

I didn't realise anyone had replied to this. Thanks very much for the comments Amleto.

Seeing as my car is back in the garage again after breaking down a fourth time (turns out garage A replaced a cable with the wrong type causing another slow leak), I've held off. The third party who inspected the clutch also said they weren't willing to put it on paper so I'm back to the drawing board on getting an official inspection. The RAC still remain unwilling to even get involved in any way.

I'll wait for my feedback and then alter the letter again, taking your comments into consideration.

Cheers!
 
So hopefully getting my car back at 9pm tonight. The good garage have been doing diagnostics and reckon the master cylinder the RAC garage put in is knackered. Getting bored of this now.
 
This is a real ****** position to be in. Chin up mate, you'll get it resolved eventually.

I'm a bit confused by the whole process, do you have any 100% faultless garages involved now?
 
im confused too. repairing cars isnt a mathematic equation. there isnt always a "correct" answer.

was the garage you were using under an obligation to repair the problem first time round?

are you now going to sue the original garage who changed the clutch because they may have been missing the cause of the problem?

are you going to sue the original garage too in case they actually damaged the slave cyl?
 
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