Religion in the news again...

RDM · 15 Nov 2012 at 10:18

MeEsH BaKkA said:
I'm all for the sacrifice of who ever has the least chance of survival if no intervention equals the death of both.

I'm pro-choice, I am in favour of a woman getting an abortion if she doesn't want a child (though it would be much simpler to just avoid getting pregnant in the first place).

However there have been some suggestions that this woman may have died even if she had an abortion so using her as an argument for "abortions save lives" is just wrong.

Diesel · 15 Nov 2012 at 11:30

RDM said:
I'm pro-choice, I am in favour of a woman getting an abortion if she doesn't want a child (though it would be much simpler to just avoid getting pregnant in the first place).

However there have been some suggestions that this woman may have died even if she had an abortion so using her as an argument for "abortions save lives" is just wrong.

Surely giving her the abortion was worth a try though?

wannabedamned · 15 Nov 2012 at 11:40

RDM said:
I'm pro-choice, I am in favour of a woman getting an abortion if she doesn't want a child (though it would be much simpler to just avoid getting pregnant in the first place).

However there have been some suggestions that this woman may have died even if she had an abortion so using her as an argument for "abortions save lives" is just wrong.

How is it wrong? she was admitted with severe pain, she was determined to be miscarrying early on after being admitted. And then left 3 days to deteriorate

Shes the perfect example of abortions save lifes. Aborting the baby 3 days earlier could have kept her alive, could have yes.

Possibly not, BUT on the grounds of which the hospital refused to do the abortion "we're god believers init" Is absolutely stupid

RDM · 15 Nov 2012 at 11:51

wannabedamned said:
How is it wrong? she was admitted with severe pain, she was determined to be miscarrying early on after being admitted. And then left 3 days to deteriorate

Shes the perfect example of abortions save lifes. Aborting the baby 3 days earlier could have kept her alive, could have yes.

Abortions also cost lives, should I use those as examples as to why we shouldn't perform abortions? All I was saying is that it would be a good idea to determine if an abortion would have actually saved her life before using her case as cause célèbre for abortion.

wannabedamned said:
Possibly not, BUT on the grounds of which the hospital refused to do the abortion "we're god believers init" Is absolutely stupid

Do we know that for sure? Obviously that is why Ireland has strict abortion laws in general, but they do allow abortion if the mother's life is at risk. The reporting on this case has been pretty one sided so far.

wannabedamned · 15 Nov 2012 at 11:56

The quote I saw that kinda drove the religous thing home for me was this one

"Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby," he told The Irish Times in a telephone interview from Belgaum, southwest India.

"When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning, Savita asked: 'If they could not save the baby, could they induce to end the pregnancy?' The consultant said: 'As long as there is a fetal heartbeat, we can't do anything.'"

"Again on Tuesday morning … the consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita said: 'I am neither Irish nor Catholic,' but they said there was nothing they could do," Praveen Halappanavar was quoted as saying.

Seems to wreak of religous dictated policy.

Johno please? · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:09

Just heard a guy on radio 2 say you shouldn't give a woman an abortion even if both mother and child will die as a result of the pregnancy.... seriously? wheres the ******* morals? This is someone from the western world.... in 2012, it blows my mind.

TwsT · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:14

Efour2 said:
somones cat died too the other day /sadface

lawl

Gackt · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:15

It's frankly sickening.

Religious belief should not dictate moral or medical policy. The child was dying, and an abortion could have saved the mother's life. But because of backwater, archaic, moronic beliefs, they didn't do it.

Disgusting. The people who refused the abortion are guilty of murder by willful neglect and should be brought to justice.

Kennysevenfold · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:16

Such a stupid law, many Catholics can honestly say then did not have sex before marriage

Pudney · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:28

Gackt said:
It's frankly sickening.

Religious belief should not dictate moral or medical policy. The child was dying, and an abortion could have saved the mother's life. But because of backwater, archaic, moronic beliefs, they didn't do it.

Disgusting. The people who refused the abortion are guilty of murder by willful neglect and should be brought to justice.

You do understand abortion laws in Ireland don't you?

Gackt · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:32

Pudney said:
You do understand abortion laws in Ireland don't you?

Yes, they're a joke.

Pudney · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:34

Gackt said:
Yes, they're a joke.

Then you understand an abortion would have been legal in this case?

wannabedamned · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:38

Pudney said:
Then you understand an abortion would have been legal in this case?

are you sure? The consultant from the hospital in question said otherwise when denying the abortion

Yaayuh! · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:39

Expected news and OP linked The Sun...
blaahh

Pudney · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:40

wannabedamned said:
are you sure? The consultant from the hospital in question said otherwise when denying the abortion

Abortions are legal in Ireland to save the mother's life. I would guess (and it is a guess) the consultant didn't believe her life was in danger. Which would make the issue not about the law but instead about the consultant's opinion (which appears misfounded).

Of course, I am not a lawyer or doctor and especially not in Ireland

fluffmct · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:52

Pudney said:
Abortions are legal in Ireland to save the mother's life. I would guess (and it is a guess) the consultant didn't believe her life was in danger. Which would make the issue not about the law but instead about the consultant's opinion (which appears misfounded).

Of course, I am not a lawyer or doctor and especially not in Ireland

Apparently there was a high court ruling to make abortion legal but it's contraditory to the constitution so it's a grey area. It's both legal and illegal, depending on who you ask

Pudney · 15 Nov 2012 at 13:57

fluffmct said:
Apparently there was a high court ruling to make abortion legal but it's contraditory to the constitution so it's a grey area. It's both legal and illegal, depending on who you ask

Aah, quite possibly, either way it's certainly not as clear cut as people think it is in Ireland!

Castiel · 15 Nov 2012 at 14:08

fluffmct said:
Apparently there was a high court ruling to make abortion legal but it's contraditory to the constitution so it's a grey area. It's both legal and illegal, depending on who you ask

The Irish Constitution supports abortion to save a woman's life. The problem lies with the Government not enacting the legislation to enforce the rights of the woman under the constitution in law. The State is responsible, not the Church.

fluffmct · 15 Nov 2012 at 14:27

Castiel said:
The Irish Constitution supports abortion to save a woman's life. The problem lies with the Government not enacting the legislation to enforce the rights of the woman under the constitution in law. The State is responsible, not the Church.

There's been some fairly dodgy journalism around this case due to the obvious bias on either side but I think I'm right in saying there's no actual law in place as of yet?

Also, not sure if anyone has even been arguing that it wasn't the state's decision but that doesn't completely absolve the church of responsibility.

Twirlywoos · 15 Nov 2012 at 14:55

haha OP reads the SUN and admits to liking the gutter tabloids. They normally say "you are what you eat." But in his case "You are what you read!"

hahahaha

@Efour2 poor cat