Spec me: an American address

FoxEye said:
Guys, how is circumventing regional pricing differences any different to piracy?

In both cases you're obtaining the product against the wishes of the devs/publishers/distributors, for much less than a legitimate legal purchase.

Just saying. I know some of you would frown on piracy, but are happy to buy US/Russian/Asian downloads which are much cheaper than UK products.
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Actually FoxEye DOES have a point. I am pretty sure this is technically illegal, although comparing it to piracy is a bit much.

Here people are paying for the product and it does seem rather incongruous that a DOWNLOADABLE product should be differently priced (apart from tax) in different places.

While this isn't something I have done, I can fully understand why people would do this...
 
FoxEye said:
If a man sells an apple for £1, you give him 50p and take his apple, what would you call it?
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If a man makes his apples available for £1 in one place but for 50p in another place and you pay £1 and take his apple, what would we call you? Stupid.

It's a truly moronic idea that this is anything like "stealing". You are buying a product. If rather dodgy laws based on 1960s business models make that technically illegal then my response is simply "oh noes".

FoxEye said:
The thing is, a publisher might decide to strike a deal with the US because they make more sales in the US.

That doesn't entitle people from the UK, Germany, Japan to go buy the product at US prices.

If this keeps happening, perhaps the sales will simply stop, or there will be more Steam account bans, or prices will just go up to compensate.

You can beat the system in the short term, but I wouldn't expect this to last. A few more account bans and people will get the message.
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This is stupid too. Do you have any idea how long grey market imports have existed for?
 
Jsbeer said:
Actually FoxEye DOES have a point. I am pretty sure this is technically illegal, although comparing it to piracy is a bit much.

Here people are paying for the product and it does seem rather incongruous that a DOWNLOADABLE product should be differently priced (apart from tax) in different places.

While this isn't something I have done, I can fully understand why people would do this...
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That's another good point. People buying from Amazon.com are also avoiding sales tax of any kind. Including VAT.

This isn't possible with physical goods because you'd have to pay 1) shipping costs 2) customs charges 3) import duty.
 
FoxEye said:
That's another good point. People buying from Amazon.com are also avoiding sales tax of any kind. Including VAT.

This isn't possible with physical goods because you'd have to pay 1) shipping costs 2) customs charges 3) import duty.
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Exactly one of the reasons why physical goods and digital goods are different.

Also, import duty and customs charges (same thing) have a threshold of £15 of item value before they are applied... which most of these "illegally" acquired games would be below.
 
I really don't understand how people are accusing others of stealing/piracy for paying the requested amount for a game.

Global economy import/export, had the physical copy been ordered at this download price. then there wouldn't have been any import tax/duty to pay anyway as it's below the £15 threshold


FoxEye said:
What about tax? You're still dodging VAT which would otherwise be payable.
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Nope, if it was a physical copy at this price shipepd from teh states no VAT/import/duty would be levied as its below the £15 threshold.

FoxEye said:
That's another good point. People buying from Amazon.com are also avoiding sales tax of any kind. Including VAT.

This isn't possible with physical goods because you'd have to pay 1) shipping costs 2) customs charges 3) import duty.
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On items over £15 (only if stopped by RM/Customs) I had a rather rare Japanese DVD set send from over there to here, Total value was around £340.... I paid £0 in import Duty/tax.

I orderd a Mic from modmic.com for like $28 and got charged £12 customs :(

win some lose some

FoxEye, what about the people that goto the states and bring back a load of jeans/clothes as they are far cheaper over there? Is that piracy/theft also?
 
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FoxEye said:
If a man sells an apple for £1, you give him 50p and take his apple, what would you call it?
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What a stupid analogy

If a that apple seller sells his apples to other people for 50p then why should you pay £1 for the exact same product.

Then from an apples seller POV.

Would you rather people pay 50p for apples or rather steal them?

I have never heard anyone been taken to court for buying products from another country via digital means. Law overrides EULA.
 
it's not piracy but could maybe considered fraud or fall under 'Obtaining goods by deception', but for a few games it's not going to be top priority for anyone and isn't worth the hassle.
 
FoxEye said:
If a man sells an apple for £1, you give him 50p and take his apple, what would you call it?
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Why do you think it's okay to make this example? I'd you give below the asking price then take and leave, you haven't actually completed the transaction.

There is no legal obligation that you must purchase your games from the region you reside in. Additionally it's not possible to under pay in this sort of transaction. It's either the asking price or it doesn't go through.
 
I believe the actual developers (who deserve the money) still get the same per sale regardless of geographic area. It is the money grubbing publishers and tax stealing governments that win.

I am sick of $1 = £1.
 
FoxEye said:
What about tax? You're still dodging VAT which would otherwise be payable.
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Yes, because Amazon pay their tax don't they?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20288077

Anyway how do you get round the Amazon regional restrictions because when I tried it, I couldnt see a payment method that would let me put the transaction through. They refused my transaction, I assume because the billing address was UK.
 
Hehe the issue was a cracking addition to this :)

Yup you need to add a yank addres adn then on checkout change the billing address to that one. It seems barclays will charge me a £1.50 fee, gonna run thru my toher cards to see which is lowest lol
 
~Divine~Wind~ said:
FoxEye, what about the people that goto the states and bring back a load of jeans/clothes as they are far cheaper over there? Is that piracy/theft also?
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They were physically there, they have every right to purchase them. How you decide to deal with it at the border on arrival back to the UK is the issue.

But Delaware has no tax....
 
Lol at how many different opinions there are on this subject.

Hmmm, do I buy the item from the more expensive .co.uk base price + VAT or the cheaper US .com price with no tax..?!?

On top of that, the whole system accepts it and it works with a UK credit card.

Gee, now let me think, which one do I choose...

It makes me laugh when people have this blind loyalty type mentality to the UK market, whilst they are paying over inflated UK prices, others are buying the same product for less, but they dont want to as its 'naughty'.

The best part is, even if companies/governments actually gave a rats ass about this topic, then they would do someone to stop it. But for as long as this method is available then rock on is all I can say.

This all reminds me of the whole DVD / Bluray region codes. What a load of **** that is. Oh darn, the cheap DVD I bought from the US doesnt work on my UK player. 2 minutes on the net later and you have a code to unlock the player! But oh no, they continue to make players that CAN be unlocked and the regions still exist. Hey, heres an idea, lets just have 1 region. Region 0 - worldwide on all DVDs/BD.

Vent over.
 
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neoglow> You do realise your argument is based on the idea that because someone isn't blocked from doing something, that makes it OK? Think about that in the wider context.
 
Scougar said:
neoglow> You do realise your argument is based on the idea that because someone isn't blocked from doing something, that makes it OK? Think about that in the wider context.
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Yes. 100%, definately in a 'digital' context as well. If I wanted a cheap physical item thats in the US then I would have to pay for high shipping charges or the cost of a flight to the US. So this makes it not worthwhile.

But, in a digital sense, for example, buying games over the internet, if the system ALLOWS you to buy games from another country cheaper without using VPN's, proxies or cracks or anything like that other than the etailer's own system then damn right. And I very much doubt Im going to get a call from Amazon or Customs trying to accuse me of any crime.

Take Steam for example, you cant activate a game using a Russian key without a VPN. So, STEAM's systems dont allow you to do something. Thats where the system is at fault, if the etailers system allows digital products to be bought over the internet where the credit card holders address (from the UK) dosent match the US address you buy the items with then thats tough **** to the etailer.

Back to Steam, yes, it appears you can unlock games using Russian keys and VPN's, but Valve seem to combat against that by banning / locking accounts. Well, in the minority anyway according to the Steam forums where some people have reported locked accounts. But, I seem to be reading about people buying russian keys on this forum and others all the time without trouble.

I would love to know how many Russian keys of Black Ops 2 were bought by people that dont live in Russia! I bet that number is very high cos it is a damn sight cheaper.
 
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