Woman saves fox from hounds

[Skunkworks]

Its not for fun though, it provides a service to the farmer. If people should wish to dress up in REGULAR horse attire and view the huntsman at his job, whilst hacking across land they would not normally have access to then so be it.

The horseback riders very rarely witnesses a fox being killed and when it does it is quite a solemn occasion. It's not like a football match where everyone cheers and pats each other on the back. The anti groups have done a good job of portraying hunting as done solely by the rich for the pleasure of the kill.

Cobblers.

 

[koolpc]

Not much fun for Basil is it.

Whatever people say you will always get those that are for it and those against it.

For me, if the fox is a big problem then if it needs to be culled etc then i am sure a better way can be found that the traditional 'fox hunting' that we see headlined. Yes, foxes can be a pain to farmers etc, my uncle used to shoot them whenever he got the chance, but at the same time he loathed fox hunting.

I guess the majority of the 'hunt' do it for fun, to dress up, have a laugh. They care not about what is happening. For them, it is 'tradition'.

Cant believe this thread has lasted this long now.

 

[grimm]

If death to foxes is going to happen regardless, and it is done in an equally humane way whichever method is chosen (hounds/poison/traps/shooting), then why does it matter how people dress up or whether they enjoy it?

For the record I'm actually neutral towards it. It's not exactly pleasant, but then again there are a lot of things that people deem acceptable that I find unpleasant.

I can see why some people hate it but the problem I see is that these people tend to be ignorant to all of the issues and facts surrounding it.

 

[wilber]

Cobblers.

Brilliant coming from such an expert on the subject. I have hunted on horse back, and witnessed it first hand. That is what happened.

 

[koolpc]

Brilliant coming from such an expert on the subject. I have hunted on horse back, and witnessed it first hand. That is what happened.

I thought they all met up later at night and danced around the fox naked?

 

[wilber]

I thought they all met up later at night and danced around the fox naked?

Would not surprise me if you did believe that.

 

[Naffa]

Personal attack.. Brilliant.

After just saying, 'you don't half spout some crap'. Hypocrite much?

You do realise some areas of the countryside are vast and remote, making it incredibly difficult to lamp across, due to not being able to get a quad across it, and the most effective method is to use hounds in these regions.

I do realise that some areas of the countryside are vast and remote, I have never encountered a place where it is so difficult to navigate that I have to get five others to dress up, and take a pack of hounds out for a day in the vain hope that I might catch two foxes. Wait a week or two, and then go out again and catch another two.

I can't believe you're actually trying to justify hunting foxes with hounds on the grounds that it's an effective means of culling foxes. What about stag hunting? Or does that not count for some reason?

 

[Naffa]

Brilliant coming from such an expert on the subject. I have hunted on horse back, and witnessed it first hand. That is what happened.

Well, I do live on an organic farm in the South West of the UK, had people illegally hunting on my family's land, and I can confirm that it is not done as a service to a farmer. The fact that you keep trying to perpetuate this myth demonstrates that you know there is something morally abhorrent about the practice, or else you would try and justify it for the same reason the people actually do it, they enjoy it.

 

[McGray]

 

[wilber]

I do realise that some areas of the countryside are vast and remote, I have never encountered a place where it is so difficult to navigate that I have to get five others to dress up, and take a pack of hounds out for a day in the vain hope that I might catch two foxes. Wait a week or two, and then go out again and catch another two.

I can't believe you're actually trying to justify hunting foxes with hounds on the grounds that it's an effective means of culling foxes. What about stag hunting? Or does that not count for some reason?

So what is more effective in upland rural areas then?

You have little knowledge on the subject and you keep showing that every time you post.

I have no knowledge of stag hunting, and deer management so i reserve judgement on the subject or i could end up sounding like many who post on here.

 

[wilber]

Well, I do live on an organic farm in the South West of the UK, had people illegally hunting on my family's land, and I can confirm that it is not done as a service to a farmer. The fact that you keep trying to perpetuate this myth demonstrates that you know there is something morally abhorrent about the practice, or else you would try and justify it for the same reason the people actually do it, they enjoy it.

The enjoyment comes from the social aspect of the meet, and riding horses across land you do not normally have access too, whilst enjoying the countryside around you, as i have already stated the horse riders rarely witness a kill and when it does occur it is quite a solemn event.

 

[Craterloads]

Did you do anything about that mistreatment? Probably not.....and again is that even comparable (using sarcasm justifying a stupid statement aside) to anything I said....not really.

Actually i did, really i did. I sent an email giving my support yesterday morning @ http://www.houndsoff.co.uk/contact and will be making a small donation, and i encourage everyone in this thread to make a small contribution to an amazing group of people, judging by that woman’s bravery. You might find it a stupid comparison, but it is very comparable in the context of reactions to cruelty regardless of the subject.

Define normal, define maltreatment in the context of Animal Husbandry and Wildlife Management?

If you don’t know all ready, i would be wasting my time and effort making an attempt at defining normal to you. It would be like trying to explain compassion to a serial killer. I’ll give you a clue though, "normal" people watched that video and were probably horrified at the brutality and felt some joy seeing that brave woman coming to the rescue of that defenceless fox. You on the other hand "I can not see any valid argument for either position that supplants the other" like some cold blooded lizard.

....I suppose you donate to every single appeal you see, on TV, in the street, in magazines and so on?

... I suppose you help the homeless in your area, you donate your time and money to helping disabled young men and women, raise money for local charities (including the RSPCA), built schools and hospitals and sanitation in some of the poorest parts of the world, put your life on the line to make sure a minority is not murdered by the majority......have you?

I try where i can, can i do more? Hell yes. But i sure as hell don’t use one form of suffering to justify my own dishing out of savagery to the defenceless.

I somehow doubt it, I have the feeling that your self imposed moral superiority is nothing more than words and rhetoric.

There isn’t even any relevance to your line of questioning, how does me or anyone doing or not doing the above justify further mistreatment and brutality?

It appears to me like your saying you’ve done many of the things you have mentioned above, maybe in your time in the army/navy or whatever. But unfortunately just because you have done/doing some good for the mistreated, doesn’t justify/allow or excuse your current blood sport. You could have saved a million starving children from death, but that still doesn’t give you a free pass to go around dishing out inhuman savagery towards defenceless animals. What, does it turn you on staring into to the eyes of wounded animals? Do you like to see the light and soul extinguished from a dying creatures eyes? Maybe you should control your dark passenger, because i find your hobby nothing short of the satisfaction serial killers get after their kill.

I don't think you really want to go there Craterloads. You don't know me, you have little or no idea about my life or my ethics.....I would be very careful about trying to judge me or making accusations such as 'there is something wrong with you' and 'you are sick and twisted'....I could disseminate your beliefs and ethics just as easily and probably with greater effect if that is the road you want to travel.

Put your keyboard down you couldn’t disseminate your way out of a paper bag. You have an awfully high esteem of your own opinions, like anybody actually give a rats ***. If you’re not careful you might float off like a hot air balloon, with the size of that thing.

I'm not going to take back anything i said, i genuinely feel you or any other person who get an erection from seeing animals being mistreated, wounded, ripped apart, shot deserve to be ridiculed and made to feel 'sick and twisted'. If you were going to eat the dam thing, fair enough. It's not like I’m attacking your beliefs, religion but something that is completely voluntary, something you could give up without any effort that would result in better animal welfare.

I suggest you look closely within yourself before you make such judgements and statements about others and just pause before saying things that are patently unrepresentative and unfounded.

My comments were based off your statements, i can only judge from what you have stated, and I'm proud of my stance against the murdering of defenceless animals by people who enjoy watching fellow living creatures die, purely for the sake of blood.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

A disgusting habit, barbarian and completely foolish. Funny thing is how we ask from other poor countries to preserve their wildlife while some fools back home kill for fun, i wonder what psychiatrics say for people who find killing as a method of pleasure

 

[RDM]

Killing an animal for consumption is a better reason to kill an animal than the simple pleasure derived from killing another creature.

How is killing an animal for consumption any better than killing it for pleasure? We no longer need to kill animals for consumption, we do it because we like the taste of meat. Killing an animal for consumption is for pleasure. Just like the pleasure gained by killing an animal for consumption is derived from the eating of the animal rather than the killing of it, for hunting the pleasure is generally derived from the act of the hunt rather than the killing of the animal.

 

[RDM]

A disgusting habit, barbarian and completely foolish. Funny thing is how we ask from other poor countries to preserve their wildlife while some fools back home kill for fun,

The fox is in no way at risk.

i wonder what psychiatrics say for people who find killing as a method of pleasure

You are making the mistake that many in this thread are making in that the pleasure in a hunt is gained from the kill, this isn't really the case.

 

[McGray]

The enjoyment comes from the social aspect of the meet, and riding horses across land you do not normally have access too, whilst enjoying the countryside around you, as i have already stated the horse riders rarely witness a kill and when it does occur it is quite a solemn event.

Why is this not possible without killing anything?

 

[estebanrey]

How is killing an animal for consumption any better than killing it for pleasure? We no longer need to kill animals for consumption, we do it because we like the taste of meat. Killing an animal for consumption is for pleasure. Just like the pleasure gained by killing an animal for consumption is derived from the eating of the animal rather than the killing of it, for hunting the pleasure is generally derived from the act of the hunt rather than the killing of the animal.

Difference being the kill precedes the enjoyment of eating and thus has to be done to enable it. The hunt is done before the kill so if that's the bit you enjoy, why not just become bird watcher or wildlife photographer and have the same 'hunt' but end it with a shot from a camera instead of a gun?

 

[elmarko]

How is killing an animal for consumption any better than killing it for pleasure? We no longer need to kill animals for consumption, we do it because we like the taste of meat. Killing an animal for consumption is for pleasure. Just like the pleasure gained by killing an animal for consumption is derived from the eating of the animal rather than the killing of it, for hunting the pleasure is generally derived from the act of the hunt rather than the killing of the animal.

If you read the entire post I addressed this point.

I'm aware of the inherent hypocrisy of people eating meat & being against other forms of cruelty - but this isn't an "all or nothing" dichotomy.

Concern for animal welfare is a gradual sliding scale of social attitudes, killing for the pleasure of killing isn't comparable to killing for consumption, for one we need food to live (I agree alternatives exist, but we have a biological drive to eat certain types of food - meat being one of them, we do have canines).

One key point, if an alternative was developed (such as synthetic meat) much of the (anti-hunting) population would be willing to switch, but for the switch to occur people require some compassion for excessive animal suffering.

For the consumption of meat, the killing of the animal is a by-product of the activity (which science has already made steps to address), for fox hunting with dogs the killing of the animal IS the activity.

If killing isn't the activity, then why not do exactly the same except hire somebody in a big protected fox suit to run around for them to chase, nothing is killed & you create a few jobs .

They are not the same.

Difference being the kill precedes the enjoyment of eating and thus has to be done to enable it. The hunt is done before the kill so if that's the bit you enjoy, why not just become bird watcher or wildlife photographer and have the same 'hunt' but end it with a shot from a camera instead of a gun?

Worded far more eloquently than I could, well said.

 

[wilber]

Why is this not possible without killing anything?

A huntsman travels around the local area hunting a section of the countryside at a time, They tend not to hunt the same ground more than two to three times in a year.

Someone who wishes to view on horseback is extended the invitation to access the same areas at this time, something they would not otherwise have permission to do.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

Slightly offtopic, i remember back then when i was at Newcastle, (1999) there was a proposal to return some of the predators that have been extinguished 200 years ago in some parts of the UK, predators like the Lynx and Wolves (if memory serves me right 200 couples for a start and specifically up on the Highlands. Was it accomplished?