AMD to Nvidia Upgrade time.

[SkodaMart]

Comparing the drop-offs between the 660Ti and the 670 proves this point.

Both nVidia cards start to drop off when AA is applied.

The GTX 660 Ti is a compromise, price related.

If money was no object I would have chosen the GTX 680.

I really don't think the GTX 670 is any more 'future proof' than the Ti, which is what you are suggesting.

The GTX 670 may allow more eye candy, with this I will not disagree as it is a more expensive card.

 

[Rusty0611]

They do but if you look at the steepness of the drop off's especially at 2x MSAA you can see that this is the 192 bit bus limitation kicking in.

Everything else you've said is tangential and I don't want to get involved in debating future proofing as it's unknown.

What I will say is that if you consider that the 192 bit bus is indisputably restricting at 1080 in last years games what would today's games show if these tests were re-run? And then what about future games?

Price/performance the 660Ti needs to be £10-20 more than the 7870 to fit in and be recommendable.

Even then if you like your AA and overvolting/overclocking to the max then arguably the 7870 is a better option than the 660Ti as well even if it was priced just above the 7870. But that is another question for another person purchasing.

As Gregster says, the 660Ti and 680 stick out in the price/performance stakes considering the range as whole.

 

[spoffle]

This is really what it comes down to..

AMD Bringing out drivers that work really well with there new products, But bring a world of issues for the slightly older cards.

I've had a 6950, worked fine on the latest drivers with no issues at all. I've now got 2x 7950s on the latest drivers, they're fine too.

Just because you're having issues, doesn't necessarily mean it's the graphics drivers that's definitely to blame. Have you tried the cards independently, for example?

People have similar issues with nVidia cards at times too, it's just that sort of thing that happens at times.

I have seen something similar

I have a pair of old HD 5970s which I run in quadfire

If I use drivers 10.4 something like 3dmark11 runs fine, if I use the up to date drivers it does not.

I think I remember reading your issues on this, isn't it solely 3D Mark 2011? I'm pretty sure you said that games were fine, but it was just 3D mark that wasn't running on all 4 GPUs?
It's fair enough to be annoyed at the fact that it's not working of course, but they're old GPUs, that I recall worked fine in everything except 3D Mark 2011, which is arguably quite unimportant since it has no real world relevance to the intended usage of the graphics cards (games).

@Rusty you place too high a value on overclocking.

I have noticed many times that and overclocked setup will bench far faster than a stock setup, however you seem to get more little stutters etc with an overclocked rig.

A 'stock' system can feel far smoother than an overclocked one, especially the sort of overclocks you are referring to.

You shouldn't be giving anyone advice because you very clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Your post suggests that the lower the clockspeed, the smoother the performance which is just utter rubbish.

The stock/reference clockspeeds of cards is a fairly arbitrary number in relation to the core itself. In the case of 7950s, they are effectively "underclocked" quite a bit (at least 25%) compared to what the core itself is capable of. To suggest that increasing the core frequency means that the games stutter more implies that the stock/reference clockspeed has some significance to the core itself.

I think the real issue here is that you're really bad at overclocking so you've convinced yourself that overclocking is crap and you didn't want to do it anyway, to cope with the fact that you're not very good at it.

 

[SkodaMart]

I think the real issue here is that you're really bad at overclocking so you've convinced yourself that overclocking is crap and you didn't want to do it anyway, to cope with the fact that you're not very good at it.

I really can't see the point in overclocking. Modern hardware is fast enough for me as it comes.

If the rest of you wish to overclock, good for you. I actually like reading the enthusiast - water cooled threads.

Edit: I run my memory at is XMP profile, thats about it.

I overclocked my graphics card but the gains where so minor it wasn't really worth it other than for benching i.e. willy waving.

 

[spoffle]

That's not the point you made. You claimed overclocking hinders performance which is complete rubbish and it very much looked like you were saying it because you can't overclock very well yourself, you've convinced yourself that it's crap and you didn't want to do it anyway.

You are talking offensive amounts of rubbish in this thread which just reflects badly on you, especially when you try to defend what you've said, which just shows you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Gregster]

Overclocking become quite a necessity when frame rates are dipping into 30's. A small overclock can keep frames into the 40's and save having to upgrade again. This could give you a good 6-12 months of smooth gaming. This in turn will allow newer gen cards to be released and give you time to see the big picture of what they are capable of and even see some decent price drops.

 

[SkodaMart]

You are talking offensive amounts of rubbish in this thread which just reflects badly on you, especially when you try to defend what you've said, which just shows you really don't know what you're talking about.

OK whatever.

 

[SkodaMart]

Overclocking become quite a necessity when frame rates are dipping into 30's. A small overclock can keep frames into the 40's and save having to upgrade again. This could give you a good 6-12 months of smooth gaming. This in turn will allow newer gen cards to be released and give you time to see the big picture of what they are capable of and even see some decent price drops.

I have nothing against this at all.

For example I overclocked my GTX 8800 to get a few more fps out of Crysis at the time.
I also overclocked my Core2Duo from 2.4 - 3.4GHz and that gave a nice (needed) boost.

However most overclocking does seem to be purely epeen and nothing more.

 

[spoffle]

Lots of good replies and interesting comparisons, Thanks.

Feel free to add more info..

I think my mind will be made up when the 12.11 Final Release comes out.

But I'm leaning towards a single GTX card now, after reading peoples posts.

You might feel like some people in this thread are confirming your beliefs but you just need to go to google to search "nVidia driver problems" to realise that it's something that happens regardless of brand.

You haven't listed what sort of testing you've done either, you'll see so many people saying things like "I've had this nVidia/AMD card and its drivers have been giving me issues for ages, they went away when I swapped brands" and that's where they leave it.

No one knows whether the cards were doing what they were doing due to hardware faults, software issues because of conflicts with other software, windows issues or anything. People are all too quick to see a "problem" that looks like it's graphics related and them blame the graphics for it.

So basically, I think you'd need to do more testing of your system to see exactly what the issue is and find the cause of it before you go out and buy any other graphics cards (regardless of whether it's AMD or nVidia), if you can sort out the issues you're having, or figure out that one card might be faulty you could sort it out and not have to spend out on an expensive fix which won't bring you any more performance.

Plus it's just a fact that AMD graphics cards perform faster at lower price points, which makes it hard for most people to recommend an nVidia card in its place. There are plenty of people with AMD cards that work fine with no issues.

 

[spoffle]

OK whatever.

No not whatever at all. Are you actually going to attempt to back up your claims that overclocking hinders performance? Or will you accept that it's rubbish and you only said it because you were talking rubbish?

I have nothing against this at all.

For example I overclocked my GTX 8800 to get a few more fps out of Crysis at the time.
I also overclocked my Core2Duo from 2.4 - 3.4GHz and that gave a nice (needed) boost.

However most overclocking does seem to be purely epeen and nothing more.

It gave a nice needed boost? You've just been saying that overclocking harms performance. Make your mind up.

 

[humbug]

Just because you don't like what is being said doesn't mean it's trolling.

Plenty of other people have pointed out the short comings in what you've said in this thread alone to make me not take that comment seriously.

It's just standard knowledge that AA will cripple a 192 bit bus. Why are you asking for proof??

As you asked so nicely for proof though I thought I'd oblige:

Look at the yellow line nose diving like a shot down plane .

The interesting thing (to me) is that it can't keep pace with a 7870 when 4x MSAA is applied.

Right, exactly, isn't the whole point of desktop gaming and the money you spend on it to have the GFX setting maxed? otherwise why not just get a Game Console?

It annoys me when reviewers bench GPU's with AA off, you have to ask why when they are supposed to be catering for enthusiasts, who spends £200+ on a GPU only to play games without AA @ 1080P, i don't know about you but i sure as hell don't, and that's on a 7870!

If your not going to push the GFX up you don't need a £200+ GPU, better yet save your self a fortune and buy an xBox 360

 

[SkodaMart]

@spoffle I would sooner gnaw my toenails than engage in a conversation with you

Nothing personal.

 

[spoffle]

So basically "I can't answer that question without looking like a fool"?

 

[Rusty0611]

So basically "I can't answer that question without looking like a fool"?

Ha!

 

[SkodaMart]

So basically "I can't answer that question without looking like a fool"?

From new I ran my GTX 470 SLi rig with a mild 700 MHz on the core, using EVGA Precision.
I had no problems and I actually never ran the system at stock.

I have overclocked my GTX 660Ti using MSi Afterburner.
I overclocked the memory 10% from 3008 to 3308 Mhz just to see the difference in Heaven 3.0

I got an improvement in my score however the transition between scenes didn't seem as smooth.

I then ran both WoT and Batman and the card generally seems smoother doing it's own thing with Afterburner uninstalled.

 

[Gregster]

From new I ran my GTX 470 SLi rig with a mild 700 MHz on the core, using EVGA Precision.
I had no problems and I actually never run the system at stock.

I have overclocked my GTX 660Ti using MSi Afterburner.
I overclocked the memory 10% from 3008 to 3308 Mhz just to see the difference in Heaven 3.0

I got an improvement in my score however the transition between scenes didn't seem as smooth.

I then ran both WoT and Batman and the card generally seems smoother doing it's own thing with Afterburner uninstalled.

Something is wrong if that is the case with overclocking. An overclock is simply making things run faster and in GPU intensive areas, it will keep frames higher...Actualy across the board it will keep games higher in terms of fps. If you was having issues, something was wrong with the overclock or your system.

 

[bru]

And so the forum rolls on as normal.
Anyone else notice that the opening poster has his i7 980x running at stock, in his sig it doesn't say about his 6950's but I expect they are at stock as well, but nobody thought to ask:- is the opening poster is going to overclock?

Anyway with that thought in mind any single card in your price bracket at stock settings is going to be slower than your currant 9650's in xfire. Now on the Nvidia side the 670 is just above your price bracket and closest to your currant level of performance, whereas the 660 is considerably cheaper starting at £160 but of course significantly slower. (id discount the 660ti as general consensus of opinion is that it is not worth the extra cost over the 660) may be one 660 now and another at a later date?

Over on the AMD side and yes I know you have asked to move away from AMD, the 7950 gives good performance, fairly level with the 670 at stock clocks maybe slightly ahead if you can get one with 900 MHz+ stock speed, pricing is good at around the £230.

Personally I would stick with what you've got and try to resolve the driver issues, as changing sides or even sticking with a newer AMD card is just spending money for no real performance improvement.

 

[Final8y]

So basically "I can't answer that question without looking like a fool"?

LOL! made my day.

 

[spoffle]

Ha!

LOL! made my day.

From new I ran my GTX 470 SLi rig with a mild 700 MHz on the core, using EVGA Precision.
I had no problems and I actually never ran the system at stock.

I have overclocked my GTX 660Ti using MSi Afterburner.
I overclocked the memory 10% from 3008 to 3308 Mhz just to see the difference in Heaven 3.0

I got an improvement in my score however the transition between scenes didn't seem as smooth.

I then ran both WoT and Batman and the card generally seems smoother doing it's own thing with Afterburner uninstalled.

So basically "I overclocked once, something wasn't smooth, overclocking = less smooth"?

That is some seriously strong hypothesis you've got there. Why not say something like "I had 2 baths one day, and my games were really smooth, so I've concluded the more baths I get the smoother my games run" because it'd make just as much sense.

You've just murdered the brain cells of the people who've read that.

Have you even considered that this "lack of smoothness" was tearing? Do you know what tearing is?

 

[SkodaMart]

So basically "I overclocked once, something wasn't smooth, overclocking = less smooth"?

That is some seriously strong hypothesis you've got there. Why not say something like "I had 2 baths one day, and my games were really smooth, so I've concluded the more baths I get the smoother my games run" because it'd make just as much sense.

You've just murdered the brain cells of the people who've read that.

Have you even considered that this "lack of smoothness" was tearing? Do you know what tearing is?

Like I said....I would sooner eat toenails.