Religion question?

[semi-pro waster]

Jesus, am I that much of a jerk about it

I'm a changed man

I'd have said it was more humourous than anything else but maybe that's just because I'm not in a position where I know enough to find it somewhat aggravating to have others misunderstand it so fundamentally.

If it helps I find threads about "Freemen on the land" probably equally painful to read since it's either based on a fundamental misunderstanding/wilful ignorance or perhaps some unhealthy combination of both.

 

[Castiel]

If it helps I find threads about "Freemen on the land" probably equally painful to read since it's either based on a fundamental misunderstanding/wilful ignorance or perhaps some unhealthy combination of both.

I find the same about threads like this one.

 

[Nitefly]

I'd have said it was more humourous than anything else but maybe that's just because I'm not in a position where I know enough to find it somewhat aggravating to have others misunderstand it so fundamentally.

If it helps I find threads about "Freemen on the land" probably equally painful to read since it's either based on a fundamental misunderstanding/wilful ignorance or perhaps some unhealthy combination of both.

I don't think I've ever found it aggravating, I've just had too much free time in my past and at times have wasted it pointlessly trying to correct others. It's a shame my enthusiasm for the subject has probably been misinterpreted by some as me being a total bell cheese, but you can't win em' all

I do have to restrain myself from correcting people on some issues... I wouldn't mind that they were constantly wrong if they weren't so insistent that they were right! But then, press the red X and they go away. Winner.

For the record I'm not a bell cheese. Oh OK, just a little bit then!

 

[Angilion]

Faith is the belief in something without evidence. We have evidence for the existence of extra terrestrial life.

Show it to me.

You have some testimonies, sure. And there are some testimonies from people who have talked with gods, witnessed miracles and suchlike. It's still a matter of faith.

It's an almost mathematical certainty that life exists outside our planet, the same can't be said for the existence of God.

You can't reasonably claim almost mathematical certainty when you have absolutely no idea of the value of two of the crucial terms. In this case, the chance of life developing and the chance of that primitive life evolving into people.

 

[Angilion]

[..]
The biggest misunderstanding in our society today is the thinking that religion and science are mutually exclusive.

I would say that one of the biggest (and one of the most dangerous) misunderstandings in the world today is the thinking that religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Pretending that they're not mutually exclusive fundamentally damages science and that fundamentally damages the future of humanity.

I'm not saying that a person can't be a scientist and also be a theist. I'm saying that nobody should mix the two up.

Science is about how the universe works and it's about evidence. Belief shouldn't play any part in it, but when it inevitably slips in a bit because humans are involved it must always be trumped by evidence.

Religion is about why the universe is as it is and it's about belief above all else.

Two completely different things with two completely different and mutually exclusive ways of looking at things - they are mutually exclusive.

 

[Chris Beard]

Darwin was a hipster. Just look at that beard!

It is pretty daft for any atheist not to believe in alien life. The sheer maths of it is staggering. At least 100m (very low estimate, probably closer to 300m) stars in our galaxy alone, Hubble detected almost 3000 galaxies in just one 24-millionth of the sky. I honestly cant see how anyone can think we are alone in all that, let alone the other 23-millionths of the sky.
Have they visited Earth? You can debate that for forever and a day.

Do you mean the other 999976-millionths? Otherwise you're only talking about 24 millionths of the sky; what is there you're not telling me about the rest of it? Who hid my ball?

 

[Spook187]

I'd love to know how you can be so certain on why religion was formed? Did you get some divine revelation thats suggests you are correct? Or is this just purely the opinion of one individual.

I believe it was formed to control and brain wash people and for some reason it still works.

 

[ringo747]

I would say that one of the biggest (and one of the most dangerous) misunderstandings in the world today is the thinking that religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Pretending that they're not mutually exclusive fundamentally damages science and that fundamentally damages the future of humanity.

I'm not saying that a person can't be a scientist and also be a theist. I'm saying that nobody should mix the two up.

Science is about how the universe works and it's about evidence. Belief shouldn't play any part in it, but when it inevitably slips in a bit because humans are involved it must always be trumped by evidence.

Religion is about why the universe is as it is and it's about belief above all else.

Two completely different things with two completely different and mutually exclusive ways of looking at things - they are mutually exclusive.

So you think that either science is right or religion is right? Science and religion are not at war.

I believe it was formed to control and brain wash people and for some reason it still works.

That's faith then isn't it. Or at least purely speculative opinion.

 

[krooton]

I believe it was formed to control and brain wash people and for some reason it still works.

I do find it a bit odd that only a few religions operate without a bunch of rules that need to be adhered to.

 

[LordSplodge]

So you think that either science is right or religion is right? Science and religion are not at war.

Exactly. I'm Pagan and have a strong interest in science. They never really conflict for me.

I do find it a bit odd that only a few religions operate without a bunch of rules that need to be adhered to.

Agreed, thankfully mine is a religion that has one 'rule' - An it harm none, do what ye will.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The key to Christianity is the resurrection of Jesus, if this is disproved then the Bible itself says "your faith is in vain if the resurrection didn't happen". It's an interesting topic to look at the historical accounts of that event/time period.

Slight issue here in that resurrection is impossible, as is the virgin birth etc.

 

[Freefaller]

Atheism is almost a religion itself in my eyes, it's being adamant and following a belief that there is nothing there - I prefer the term agnostic as generally people who are agnostic are more open minded

I don't disbelieve in aliens or ghosts, despite being a "weak minded individual".

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Freefaller, the only reason why atheism exists is due to religion, otherwise we atheists would just be completely normal and unlabeled. We gang together because we fight (in small terms) against stupidity.

We call ourselves atheists and agnostics primarily because otherwise people would think we are open to believing in a higher power without evidence.

 

[ringo747]

Slight issue here in that resurrection is impossible, as is the virgin birth etc.

How is this impossible, the intervention of an immaterial being who isn't limited by the laws of physics?

Atheism is almost a religion itself in my eyes, it's being adamant and following a belief that there is nothing there - I prefer the term agnostic as generally people who are agnostic are more open minded

Agreed. Maybe not a religion as such but it certainly is a belief system.

We gang together because we fight (in small terms) against stupidity.

What exactly do you think is stupid? How have you conducted your own quest for truth? You are clearly on your high horse and I'd love to know how (and why) you feel the need to insult the intelligence of people with alternate beliefs.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

How is this impossible, the intervention of an immaterial being who isn't limited by the laws of physics?

Everything is governed by the laws of physics, whether you can discuss the two things in parallel or not. It is impossible to resurrect a person! Are you joking?

And are you trying to say that a sperm flew through Mary's womb to impregnate her? Equally impossible.

What exactly do you think is stupid? How have you conducted your own quest for truth? You are clearly on your high horse and I'd love to know how (and why) you feel the need to insult the intelligence of people with alternate beliefs.

I am referring to the kind of people who think that the earth was created in seven days, that dinosaurs don't exist, that DNA was genetically coded by god etc. I have to say, I don't mean your average religious person, I mean the fundamentalists.

 

[Freefaller]

I was just being a little facetious, you don't have to justify your beliefs to me. We were given our own minds to make up our own decisions.

People don't believe in God, or a higher beings or some sort of spirituality there's nothing to criticise, I don't "feel sorry" for such people as they are happy in their lives. However, I wonder if they believe in aliens, as there is no evidence of such existence, yet they are fervent followers of science.

What I like about science and religion, is that what science cannot offer, religion fills the gaps, and what religion cannot answer, science similarly offers it's own interpretation or tangible explanation.

I think the key thing to remember is that everybody's belief is as equal as your own. No matter how ludicrous it may sound to some people - we were given the gift of consciousness (either by science of birth, or the miracle of birth - which ever you choose to believe in) and it's our own to do what we want with those thoughts.

I, personally, feel there is too much in the world we don't understand, and that maybe irrationally, a religious or "spiritual" belief helps give some focus or comfort, but also answers some questions that science cannot answer (yet perhaps). I like the fact there may be more out there than we can appreciate/understand, and for me, the thought that there's "more out there" is not a stupid thing to accept. Maybe I'm weak minded for being open minded, but I'm comfortable with my convictions, and keep them (until now ) relatively to myself, and certainly do not judge or poo-poo other's interests or incredulity/scepticism.

 

[ringo747]

Everything is governed by the laws of physics, whether you can discuss the two things in parallel or not. It is impossible to resurrect a person! Are you joking?

I don't know how to make this any simpler but an immaterial, timeless, agent outside of the universe is not in any way subject to the laws of physics. How can you possible think the laws of physics extend outside of the universe?

I am referring to the kind of people who think that the earth was created in seven days, that dinosaurs don't exist, that DNA was genetically coded by god etc. I have to say, I don't mean your average religious person, I mean the fundamentalists.

I am religious but I have no idea on the age of the earth. Do I care? No it makes absolutely no difference to my core beliefs.

Your point about DNA is interesting though. I take it you believe in information injection out of nothing then?

 

[MaxP779]

I am religious but I have no idea on the age of the earth. Do I care? No it makes absolutely no difference to my core beliefs.

~4 billion years

 

[semi-pro waster]

Slight issue here in that resurrection is impossible, as is the virgin birth etc.

Perhaps the resurrection was slightly less dramatic than the Biblical story but it was not unknown even in the 20th century for people to be pronounced dead and on the way to the morgue before "waking up" and living for many more years. Is that not an explanation that fits within known parameters of possible?

It might however have been exactly as described - if you concede the point that it's possible for a being to be immortal, omnipresent, omniscient and otherwise outwith normal and explicable boundaries then frankly a resurrection is small beer. It's a matter of faith, you don't have it and that is perfectly fine but that doesn't necessarily mean that those who do are wrong - if they respect your right to believe (or not) then it seems only fair that you do the same in return.

 

[krooton]

And are you trying to say that a sperm flew through Mary's womb to impregnate her? Equally impossible.

Pretty sure you can be a virgin, receive IVF, and still remain a virgin...

The only problem I have with belief systems is when people force them on others.

"Everyone has a right to believe what they want."

Sure, in fluffy happyland this could work, but what if a cult (aka a religion that hasn't quite 'made' it) has a belief that murder is perfectly acceptable. Does the law not then 'infringe' on their beliefs?

Or do you have to be an established religion for that to happen, and if so, what about religions that essentially bought their way in to being (I'm looking at you Scientology)?