IDIOTS! (rant incoming)

Those claiming full value of childcare vouchers who just make it into the 40% band actually will be worse off. You need to clear about £1k above the band change to stay even as the allowance for childcare vouchers pre-tax drops considerably (£2.5k->£1.6k I believe). You effectively have to pay tax on the lost allowance which you would normally give to your childcare provider tax free.

If you earn £1 over the 40% threshold then you need to pay 20% tax on £1k of childcare costs you weren't paying tax on before. As your childcare costs won't change, you lose out on that tax from your net income. Seem fair?
 
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Burnsy2023 said:
I agree, but that would explain why some people at the border of a band would be less well off earning more due to cut in tax relief.
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Then they should work harder to recoup the losses. Simples! Tax credits and benefits are not a right. They can be withdrawn at any moment.
 
ShadowMan said:
Those claiming full value of childcare vouchers who just make it into the 40% band actually will be worse off. You need to clear about £1k above the band change to stay even as the allowance for childcare vouchers pre-tax drops considerably (£2.5k->£1.6k I believe). You effectively have to pay tax on the lost allowance which you would normally give to your childcare provider tax free.

If you earn £1 over the 40% threshold then you need to pay 20% tax on £1k of childcare costs you weren't paying tax on before. As your childcare costs won't change, you lose out on that tax from your net income. Seem fair?
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Yea, can't afford children? Don't ******* have them.
 
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:p
 
I rarely read popular news, but when i do i scan out the titles and main facts that are relevant to both the story and my perspective of it..

From what i find every single popular news outlet is really just as **** as one another, the only real difference is that papers like the one you describe usually post random stupid stories that only lunatics respond to.

So hmm. 400k people worse off every year?

1) Its true = dont give a ****
2) Its false = dont give a ****
 
Burnsy2023 said:
If only life was quite that easy.
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It is, it really is, and in general this "life is difficult, its not my fault" reasoning is why the world is screwed up.

Can we be honest, is taking the pill difficult, or easy? Is wearing a condom difficult, or easy. Birth control and not having a child when you can't afford one IS easy, but people are in general lazy and selfish, me included, I have no problem saying that. if you're with someone long term and they are on the pill, chances they will get pregnant are very slim, if you wear a condom aswell its going to be 1 in a million, people choose to not wear a condom as well often when your girlfriend is on the pill, or the other way around. Its a choice, its easy to make the right one, humans tend to take the easier route and not think about the consequences, but that doesn't make it not easy.

In other cases, sure, you have a kid while in a 100k a year job have a kid, get fired, house repayments screw you, lose a house, end up with very little money. I have genuine sympathy for people in that situation and they should be helped. But a huge number of people are having kids while they are on benefits already, have never worked, or are making sub 20-25k a year and could "easily" not have a child till later in life.

If less people had kids, full stop, if people had less kids, there would be more jobs to go around, less people on benefits, more benefits available for those who really need it, etc, etc. Over population is one of the root causes for most of the worlds problems... and declaring life "not that easy" is a cheap and lazy way to ignore the poor choices people make. It IS very very easy to not have kids, most people choose to have kids, have too many kids, have them when they can't afford them, or choose to be lazy about birth control when they have every option to be very vigilant about birth control.

Fubsy said:
The problem lies with people relying on this benefit. If you're earning 40 grand a year then you shouldn't be expecting your child's care to be paid for.
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Fact is people over 25-30k shouldn't be being "helped" with childcare costs anyway(outside of people with genuine disabilities or children with disabilities whose needs cost more).

Either way, worse off, its ridiculous. If I'm making £39,999 a year, and get tax credits, and get a £500 pay rise, and its negated by no tax credit, then I get a £600 pay rise the year after, and a £650 pay rise the year after... eventually I'm better off. Or I could say, that pay rise doesn't work for me, never give me one again.... a much better solution :(

I weep for humanity when people complain over an effective £200-300 difference, when other people have been made redundant because some board decide there is 2% more profit to be made moving the company to China, and a family end up on 15k a year benefits..... That £200 "worse off" you are when making £40k a year must be such a hard ship.
 
So you feel people with kids should not be helped with cost of childcare. Ok then. Rather than use my tax relief childcare vouchers to pay for childcare I will pay full price. As this is now liable to tax I am paying 120% or even 140% of the cost depending on bracket as I have tax to pay on the income I didn't before. When childcare costs me £800 per month to allow me to go to work full time then I have to consider if childcare costs are the right thing to do as I might have to earn £12k just to pay for it instead of £9600 (20% bracket) That's £2400 (pre tax) I no longer have to help pay bills and run my home. Without assistance, it may be more cost effective to reduce my hours and pay partial costs whilst claiming child/family tax credits. This reduces my taxable income so that thanks to the new £9k+ allowance, my nett position is not much worse but I could be paying 50% of the tax I was before. So by saving the tax relief on £1k of childcare, I will pay 40% less tax. Want to do the maths and work out what happens to the nett income for the treasury?

Tax relief childcare vouchers are an incentive to allow parents to continue to work and contribute to the economy whilst taking the edge off the costs. They do not cover anywhere near the full cost of childcare.

For those on lower incomes, the vouchers can be the difference between going to work at all or sitting at home and caring for their child themselves. If you are a minimum wage earner, would you want to go to work 40 hours per week to earn £300 whilst paying £250 per week in childcare? You lose out on time with your child for a nett gain of £50? I'd rather stay home and live on handouts as it would actually be financially better.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Fact is people over 25-30k shouldn't be being "helped" with childcare costs anyway(outside of people with genuine disabilities or children with disabilities whose needs cost more).
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Neither should people earning under that amount. Child tax credits/benefits should be for exceptional circumstances not a norm.

Here's an extreme thought... is the benefits system actually just screwing up natural selection? Survival of the fittest?
 
NathanE said:
Here's an extreme thought... is the benefits system actually just screwing up natural selection? Survival of the fittest?
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No, both are biological processes and have nothing to do with money.

You could argue that disability benefit paid to people with hereditary conditions could be an example of that but good luck trying to get supporters.
 
Fubsy said:
The problem lies with people relying on this benefit. If you're earning 40 grand a year then you shouldn't be expecting your child's care to be paid for.
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Why 40 grand?

Should a joint household bringing in be different to an individual bringing that much in?
 
£40k per year will not put you in the higher tax bracket.

As for is it fair that someone earning over 40k should have less tax credits. Imo in the same way as a couple earning 25k each shouldn't receive the credits.
 
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