Associate
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Please tell me more about how gays are pedophiles, Orionaut.
Alan Turing Pardon
- Thread starter Nightglow
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All of them. It's a symbolic gesture to state that we recognise that at the time the laws were as such, but we have moved forward enough to recognise that the law was in error and those who were convicted are now no longer considered criminals.
It's a statement about our society, where it was and where it is now. To ignore that, you might aswell not bother to change our world for better as we clearly have no appreciation of it.
Soldato
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I think the point he's making is that inter-generational relationships may be viewed differently in 50 years time. Personally I'd have used incestuous relationships as a slightly less controversial example but I get his point.
It's not a wacky argument, if you go back 50-100 years I'm sure you'd find that homosexuality was viewed as just as immoral, if not more so, than paedophillia.
Morality is an ever-changing thing. I don't think it's the case that we were wrong then but right now as such, it's just we live in a time when our society views homophobia as a bad thing. If you could go back in time, I'm sure every society ever has always thought their morality was the correct one, didn't need changing and past ones were wrong, it will happen with ours too.
If it were the case that we are on some progressive road to a moral utopia what's the final destination?
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No, why would a dead man appreciate this?
Honestly...
If anything this is just going to corrupt our history, should we forgive dead dicators now as well or perhaps the church should say sorry for being ********* to fringe scientists centuries ago?
Probably wildly bad examples, but my point is clear enough, messing with cultural history is just bad for everyone, it gives us identity and something to look back upon, then ponder how better/worse life is because of that event.
Just my opinion of this sort of thing.
Honestly...
If anything this is just going to corrupt our history, should we forgive dead dicators now as well or perhaps the church should say sorry for being ********* to fringe scientists centuries ago?
Probably wildly bad examples, but my point is clear enough, messing with cultural history is just bad for everyone, it gives us identity and something to look back upon, then ponder how better/worse life is because of that event.
Just my opinion of this sort of thing.
Soldato
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dbl
Officially he is though.
Soldato
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There can't be more than a million people that would need to be pardoned over the last 100 years. It could just be a case of 'the following people are pardoned:' on the internet with DCs signature at the bottom. Wouldn't be too hard and would be money better speant that the money going into the EBACs.
He is classified by a criminal as by the law of the time he was a criminal, and I think the fact that the law has changed shows that we're moving on and that times have changed.
Man of Honour
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Should we apologise to the Great Train Robbers because people nowadays are committing murder and coming out way before some of those cons did?
We'll keep having this thread until the answer is yes. This is how democracy works isn't it?
Er... No
It wouldn't have been considered pedophilia because it wasn't (not even "borderline") if the person was a teenager. Pedophile is related to prepubescent children.
I assume you're asking for the reasons I outlined above?
If was charged with a criminal offense, he's a criminal.
Criminal doesn't mean "bad" or "wrong" it simply relates to the law.
If it was a criminal offense to pick your nose in public and people got caught doing it, they'd be criminals.
I think too many people use "criminal" or "legal/illegal" as synonyms for "right/wrong".
Well, the whole "measurable harm" thing makes certain examples simply stupid to use, it's also impossible for a child to give consent, so no - it won't happen if we retain certain moral values (such as valuing consent & giving a damn about measurable harm).
I know what he was trying to say, but to use examples of things which will never be considered "accepted" (Assuming we still value consent) - is a little stuipid.
Incestuous relationships are taboo for genetic reasons, beastiality for consent reasons - as long as a rational approach is used to judge these actions (based on harmed caused/infromed consent given) it's not so open to judgement in the near future as people may suggest.
Homosexuality between consenting adult partners has no measurable harm issues to contend with & historically the negative moral judgement was factually & logically flawed.
Er... No
Government wants something, it goes to vote, gets rejected by the people.
Government reword what they want subtly, it goes to vote, gets rejected by the people.
Government enforce sweeping new anti terror laws and get what they were after
A statement of regret is enough for the State to admit it was wrong. The best way to honour this is to learn from it and make sure things like this are not repeated. This is how society moves forward, a singular pardon for Turin simply because of who he is rather than what he was convicted for seems crass to me...better to choose someone unknown to pardon, so that the symbolism is centred on the retraction of the offence and recognising that homosexuality is no longer considered illegal in our society, rather than by the celebrity of the individual. The problem with this approach is where does it end?...do we pardon everyone who was ever convicted for a crime that is no longer on the statute or illegal? Or just the famous people? Or just those that are deemed to deserve it?
The Governments apology in 2009 seems sufficent to me.
Did I say that?
I thought I was suggesting that middle aged persons (Of either sex/orientation) who were in the habit of trawling the street at night for anonymous teenage sexual partners (Of either sex/orientation) might be borderline paedophiles.
Is this an unreasonable suggestion? :-/
Alan Turing's pardon I think would create a good catalyst effect that enables other people in the same situation past or present that do not have the same status(notoriety wise), maybe this will go some way to end the bigotry of the past; after all we live in a celebrity obsessed society and take notice of people who are, I would consider of less importance in the prosperous growth (educationally) of a persons every day life.
Just my view.
Just my view.
Soldato
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Yes, at last, pardoned for being gay. He didn't apologise one bit, and thought he got away by killing himself. But now we all hope he finally learned his lesson and that he won't do it again.