Religion question?

Jason2 said:
He is not an atheist!!! Atheists claim there is no God. Every atheist I've met claims that their statement is true.
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I do not believe in God. Ergo I am an atheist.
I cannot categorically say god does not exist. Ergo I am agnostic.

There you go, you now know an atheist that that isn't claiming his statement s true...

Jason2 said:
Being an agnostic and atheist is like me saying 'I'm a Christian yet I'm not sure Jesus was the Son of God'. Don't you see the fallible?
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Google atheist Christians. :)
 
RDM said:
You can't if you are also arguing that religion doesn't make people do bad things. You can't just claim the good and reject the bad things.
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I wasn't arguing either way. I'm just saying that bad people have turned their life around and have attributed that to religion so it can work both ways (should you want to argue about it).


Johno please? said:
I've never heard of anyone doing anything bad in the name of Atheism, got any examples?

Unlike people who think their god is telling them to blow themselves up or kill young women who are trying to vaccinate children against polio to use a recent example.
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Although I haven't read 'the bibles' (as I said) but I'm pretty sure there is nowhere in any of them that say it is ok to blow yourself up and kill others. Both suicide and murder are cardinal sins I believe.

So, is that religion doing making people do those things, or bad people who have bent the scriptures making people do bad things?

If religion didn't exist do you truly believe we wouldn't have such problems or do you think crazies would just find another cause to scapegoat?
 
ShortWarning said:
Although I haven't read 'the bibles' (as I said) but I'm pretty sure there is nowhere in any of them that say it is ok to blow yourself up and kill others. Both suicide and murder are cardinal sins I believe.
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The Islamic Hadith says...

"The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr)."
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So it boils down to interpretation. Suicide bombers see their action not as suicide but as a martyr who has died in a war.
 
I posted it earlier....


But Jason2 is misunderstanding the context in which it is said. Dawkins is being pedantic (and semantic if you like) and effectively agreeing with my and elmarko's definitions.

He cannot rule out the possibility of a god (they are talking about knowledge in the clip) and therefore cannot claim he definately doesn't exist so he 'agnostic' to the question as to whether a god exists or not. But clearly he doesn't 'believe' in a god and thinks his existence is high unlikely (he describes himself as a 6 on a 1 to 7 scale of surety of god's existence).

But he's not saying he is 'agnostic' as a lot of people use it. To describe someone who doesn't care about theism or atheism.
 
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estebanrey said:
I posted it earlier....



But Jason2 is misunderstanding the context in which it is said. Dawkins is being pedantic (and semantic if you like) and effectively agreeing with my and elmarko's definitions.

He cannot rule out the possibility of a god (they are talking about knowledge in the clip) and therefore cannot claim he definately doesn't exist so he 'agnostic' to the question as to question as to whether a god exists. But clearly he doesn't 'believe' in a god and thinks his existence is high unlikely (he describes himself as a 6 on a 1 to 7 scale of surety of god's existence).

But he's not saying he is 'agnostic' as a lot of people use it. To describe someone who doesn't care about theism or atheism.
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Exactly, there are some very smug people in this thread arguing pathetic semantics about definitions and circling the drain of solopsism.
 
smelly_legend said:
I didn't say I didn't/did believe in god. I just don't know. That's bang smack in the middle of the diagram, no?
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You do not KNOW whether God exists or not.

But what you BELIEVE is binary, you either believe or you don't. If you don't prey or describe yourself and a 'believer' then you must, by process of elimination, be a non-believer.

Belief and knowledge are two separate issues which you keep conflating into one.

Think of bloke getting a DNA test to find out is the child he's bringing up is his or not. He does not KNOW the child is his or not (until the results are through) but he may well believe it is (or not as the case maybe).
 
hurfdurf said:
Exactly, there are some very smug people in this thread arguing pathetic semantics about definitions and circling the drain of solopsism.
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Haha! Yes.

smelly_legend said:
I didn't say I didn't/did believe in god. I just don't know. That's bang smack in the middle of the diagram, no?
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I'm not sure if you're being ironic (haven't been following the thread), but I like it anyway.

estebanrey said:
Think of bloke getting a DNA test to find out is the child he's bringing up is his or not. He does not KNOW the child is his or not (until the results are through) but he may well believe it is (or not as the case maybe).
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Poor sciencegrasping analogy.
 
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Belief in a deity is a two way concept. In that it works from bottom up and top down. You believe, and you will gain more from it. "He" will believe and deliver more to you. Rather "He" obviously does not need to believe, especially in your existence for obvious reasons; because you do. Belief is not something that is taught or sold, but accumulated. You can't tell anyone anything these days. It's why it's called belief and not knowledge, though you can come close to that with practice and insight.
 
estebanrey said:
You do not KNOW whether God exists or not.

But what you BELIEVE is binary, you either believe or you don't. If you don't prey or describe yourself and a 'believer' then you must, by process of elimination, be a non-believer.

Belief and knowledge are two separate issues which you keep conflating into one.

Think of bloke getting a DNA test to find out is the child he's bringing up is his or not. He does not KNOW the child is his or not (until the results are through) but he may well believe it is (or not as the case maybe).
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What I believe is they may be a god, there may be not. I do not subscribe to one or the other completely. Therefore, calling me an atheist would be inaccurate.

Just because I don't pray (and I don't "prey" either - that's creepy) it doesn't mean that I might not think there is one. The idea you are describing for me is an extremely stereotypical/shallow idea of what belief in God is. (not to try and sound like a ****)

Like I said before, I think it is more complex than you imagine. Check out the book "Man and His Symbols" by this chap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ25Ai__FYU
 
estebanrey said:
The Islamic Hadith says...



So it boils down to interpretation. Suicide bombers see their action not as suicide but as a martyr who has died in a war.
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I see your point but it is my understanding that 99% of the Islamic community do not interpret it in this way.

I'm also fairly certain that most Mosques would not teach this.

So again, is this religions fault or a small minority of bad people brain washing others?

Would suicide bombing become extinct should religion cease to exist? I think not.
 
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