Phenomenon of **** tyres

miniyazz

miniyazz

miniyazz

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Joined
25 Dec 2008
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Sheffield/Norwich
I recently changed my front tyres for decent ones and since then have noticed the back end (currently with pretty naff tyres still) is overly eager to step out (read: while going fairly sedately around roundabouts, that sort of thing). Didn't have this issue when all four tyres were poo. Why is this? ESP kicking in later as the front wheels are still gripping? Rear wheel slide being more blatant than all wheel slide (and potentially harder to control in a temporary 4wd car)?

Obviously I'm planning on replacing the rear tyres asap, but I'm reluctant to swap rear and front wheels (put the good tyres on rear) as in a temporary 4wd car I'm nervous that the front wheels will lose grip and understeer while accelerating round a corner, causing the rear wheels to kick in causing massive oversteer/uncontrollable spin as the back end is pushed forwards.

Thoughts?
 
You should have the grippier tyres on the rear, not the front. Contrary to causing massive oversteer that you worry about, doing so would actually help prevent it.
 
General consensus is best tyres on the rear because crap tyres on the front will result in understeer. You can feel this happening and most people know to back off and it's all nice and manageable. Crap tyres on the rear will result in oversteer which your general driver can't handle nearly so well.
 
On the other hand I usually prefer having newer tyres on the front if I have the choice. Oversteer's fun, understeer's annoying ;)
 
Aye but normally with understeer you stop accelerating (obviously) and then letting off the gas. What happens with temporary 4wd is you carry on accelerating with worsening understeer, so it's less clear than the usual cases of fwd/rwd/4wd.
That being said, it may still be the best option.
 
I had to laugh when I had the new front tyres on the Honda fitted, the guy said yeah we'll stick the new ones on then swap them with the rears.

I thought I misheard him the first time so said again no just the fronts, to which he looked at me like I was some sort of dumbass and said 'yeah, then we'll put them on the rear' or something.

I still didn't twig what he was saying as it always seems to be one thing or another when getting tyres done so just let them get on with it.

Queue confused looking man who went out to get my car in and on the ramp as he looked at the fronts, then the rears, at which point I went outside and explained that I think his boss had confused things and that they are different size fitments front and rear so they'll be no swapping ;)

Then this guy proclaimed that they were the wrong fitment on the car and was surprised at the sizes when I reassured him they were right.

(it had the new rears put on the day before anyway)
 
sigma said:
Excellent thread for proving why most cheap tyres are **** :)
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This was a little bit the reason for posting. Little good that it'll do though since it'll be forgotten in a week's time :p

For posterity I should point out that the **** tyres have maybe 5mm tread left.
 
miniyazz said:
Aye but normally with understeer you stop accelerating (obviously) and then letting off the gas. What happens with temporary 4wd is you carry on accelerating with worsening understeer, so it's less clear than the usual cases of fwd/rwd/4wd.
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Why would you deliberately continue accelerating when experiencing understeer simply because you have a 4WD car? Makes no sense at all.
 
Shad said:
On the other hand I usually prefer having newer tyres on the front if I have the choice. Oversteer's fun, understeer's annoying ;)
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I'm with you. - I'd rather have the front go where I point it, and deal with the back end swinging like a pendulum. It's what you're used to I guess, and I'm used to oversteer.
 
When I first bought my New car, I made the case to he garage that the two front tyres were near legal limit and I'd buy the car (only a 57 plate fiesta) if they replaced both tyres on the axel.

They did this and said that the newest tyres were to go on the back. The tyres on the back they were replacing were CSC3's which moved to the front, and the new 'sunny' tyres on the back. The oversteer was horrendous, and with me not driving long (s year at the time) it was a real handful in the wet, at the time. That said, I got used to it until the CSC3's on the front wore and replaced all 4 tyres with the continental's.
 
PobodY said:
I'm with you. - I'd rather have the front go where I point it, and deal with the back end swinging like a pendulum. It's what you're used to I guess, and I'm used to oversteer.
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I'm very used to oversteer but not from a Mondeo :D Like the poster above the previous owner had fitted Sunny tyres on the rear with Michelins's up front and in the dry everything was fine but as soon as the rain came out mine had the disturbing habit of constantly getting the back end out on virtually every sharp corner & roundabout etc (everything from a tiny slide to a full on 30 degree slide over 40m at 60mph on a country lane).

It never felt "safe" do that :D so I changed the fronts to Sunny as well (the Michelins were very worn and the rear Sunnys relatively new) and now the problem is gone, mainly because I can't go around any corner fast enough now as it feels like starts to understeer so I back off.

When it come time to replace all 4 I'll be getting some decent tyres!
 
miniyazz said:
Aye but normally with understeer you stop accelerating (obviously) and then letting off the gas. What happens with temporary 4wd is you carry on accelerating with worsening understeer, so it's less clear than the usual cases of fwd/rwd/4wd.
That being said, it may still be the best option.
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And when you let off the accelerator, the rear of the car lifts slightly meaning the poorer back tyres have even less grip which is exacerbated when going around a corner.

If the poorer tyres are on the front, the extra "weight" afforded by the car diving forward slightly can improve things a bit.

Alternatively, entering a corner at the correct speed will result in no over or understeer at all :p. Of course, in reality, sometimes the corners can sneak up on you.

Poorer tyres on the front is the safest solution IMO.
 
Dogbreath said:
Why would you deliberately continue accelerating when experiencing understeer simply because you have a 4WD car? Makes no sense at all.
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Poorly worded, that's all. In a fwd car the car stops accelerating as soon as understeer develops because it loses grip, before you have a chance to back off. Here however the back wheels just kick in, giving further acceleration from the rear before the driver has a chance to back off.
 
I can see my face in my rears, waiting for 4 new boots but about to head to Devon for a few days so will have to wait. Slides ace though :)
 
miniyazz said:
Poorly worded, that's all. In a fwd car the car stops accelerating as soon as understeer develops because it loses grip, before you have a chance to back off. Here however the back wheels just kick in, giving further acceleration from the rear before the driver has a chance to back off.
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Surely understeer does not equal zero forward acceleration? You could have your foot nailed to the floor, induce understeer by trying to turn, and you'll still be accelerating!
Housey said:
I can see my face in my rears, waiting for 4 new boots but about to head to Devon for a few days so will have to wait. Slides ace though :)
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What tyres are you going to opt for?
 
I've got lingalonga ditch finders on the front of the 5 & Avons on the back so when I try a slow drift the front slides to much, I'm having to kind of kick/snatch to get the back out before the fronts.
I plan on putting the ditch finders on the back & burning the **** out of them & then getting something fairly decent all round so at least the front will react like the back if that makes any sense at all.
 
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