Will God accept you if you renounce religion?

Jason2 said:
The whole point of a debate is to argue about a certain subject in a formal manner. I think we're doing that ok. There has only been a couple of posters who have gotten personal, and one of those includes you. Now please, do us all a favour and kindly leave this thread. No one is forcing you to read.
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I disagree with a few of your points BT this isn't one :D
 
Jason2 said:
What are you talking about? He doesn't even talk about the bible.
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Like most creationists he creates straw men by misrepresenting the science.

As I said earlier, questions or statements based on a false premise can't be 'answered'.

Jason2 said:
And who said the world is 2,000 years old? I certainly didn't. And neither have I or anyone else said dinosaurs were placed to test our faith. Once again an atheist makes an assumption. Wouldn't be the first time though, would it.
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Dr Jobe Martin (the guy in your video) is a young earth creationist, so if he did make an assumption it was a fairly accurate one.

Well to be fair, Young Earthers believe the world is 6,000 years old but relative to it's actual lifespan (4.5 billion years) he was pretty close.
 
estebanrey said:
Like most creationists he creates straw men by misrepresenting the science.

As I said earlier, questions or statements based on a false premise can't be 'answered'.




Dr Jobe Martin (the guy in your video) is a young earth creationist, so if he did make an assumption it was a fairly accurate one.

Well to be fair, Young Earthers believe the world is 6,000 years old but relative to it's actual lifespan (4.5 billion years) he was pretty close.
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Fill in the missing gaps of evolution.
 
Right, I'm going to leave the discussion for now to read some Pratchett. He has some brilliant views about stuff like this :)
 
Jason2 said:
Watch the whole video and answer the questions that are asked. I am asking you to fill in the gaps of evolution.
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He's an idiot.

Everytype of chemical and computer. And? We haven't had thousands of years, even millions ofyears with every single combination ppossible.
Compared to the spontaneous creation of an all powerful deity.

Nope he's and idiot who clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

And no one said it only happens once, that's his retarded assumption. Many think it has happened on other worlds. It depends on th exact ingredients and then the odds. If the ingridnts is very precise and the odds extremely belong, then it's very possibletoonly of happened once.

On top of that several precursor compounds for life have been made in the lab. Just because scientists haven't done the full step yet, doesn't mean they won't. We do not have all the compounds, chemicals, powerful computers or time in the world, so that's another false assumption he makes and a ridiculous one at that.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/features/uracil.html

And naturally occurring
http://www.labspaces.net/123052/Sweet_building_blocks_of_life_found_around_young_star

Oh and he wasn't a doctor of any field he seaks for, he was a dr of dentistry, he has no leading expertise in either field.
the dr for these fields is misleading and you giv. Him credence for something that is unrelated. He was not in the scientific field of evolution, he wasn't an evolutionist in any authorities way.


Unfortunately for creationists. The arks dimensions are known, so you can't deny evolution, evolution must have happened in a hugely compressed time frame, to spawn all the creature, insects etc we see today.

Some say but we only need a few species. One pair of cainines could spawn the hundreds of canine species through evolution. I bet that even taking that into account, the ark still didnt have enough room for each family of animals/insects.
 
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Well I've watched the video now, most the stuff he's talking about I've watched documentaries that sort of explain a lot of it to a point.

No one can fill in the steps that spawned life, But they take it to a point where its almost there. Water, Gas, Fungus, lightning, volcanic conditions.

1 thing thats said amongst scientists is that most the earths water came from meteors from outerspace!!

Who knows maybe the missing step is

aliens.jpg
 
What I find most interesting about the current situation of Christianity is that the more extreme elements see any form of erosion of their numbers as a time to come out and start poking people with sticks.

I am especially worried with the rise in fascist behaviour (I know it does seem like i am connecting this with Christianity, but unfortunately they just so happen to connect with the parties/terrorists we have had recently, sorry) in the EU in recent years, using the economy or "Muslim" invasion as a carrot for folks.

I suspect Breivik is not the last would be Templar, however we have fortunately moved on from being so easily defined by religious institutions (corporate ones will have to wait for another time).

I am concerned that the elements at play are purposely backing themselves into cages...when they realise the power of religious authority has become trivial, a bout of vigilantism will likely occur, further staining their own "defence", thus further erosion and the spiral of hatred grows.

I don't know what will occur in the next few years, but I am prepared for it.

Not sure if this means anything to the current debate.
 
Jason2 said:
Fill in the missing gaps of evolution.
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What missing gaps?

Again your arguments are just fudementally flawed.

Firstly, the missing link argument is one of convenience that only grows stronger with each discovery. If I have A and Z you asked for the missing link, when I find M then in your mind all I've done is create two more gaps and you ask where the missing link is between A and M or M and Z are. When I find F then I create two more 'gaps' and you ask for them and so on.

Tons of intermediary skeletons have been found, but like I said above when it happens the creationists just claim there are two new gaps that need to be explained.

Are there gaps in evolutionary evidence? Sure, but there are far more 'non gaps' that prove the theory and there is no counter evidence that explains the current gaps whilst casting doubt on the rest of evolutionary theory.

Not accepting evolutionary theory because there are a few gaps in the fossil record is a bit like looking at 50 playing cards and deciding you won't believe that playing cards exist until you see the missing two cards.

And even if you could completely disprove evolution, that doesn't mean "god did it" or that the Adam and Eve myth is more likely.

A great analogy I heard on someone believing the creation myth over evolution using your reasoning was this, imagine having a 1,000 piece jigsaw. If you don't have 10 pieces you can still construct the image to the point where you can see what it is. A picture of a bridge with a few missing tiles isn't suddenly going to turn into a picture of a car when you find them.
 
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Perhaps the mods can turn this into the Grand Religious Debate thread and ban all other religious threads so the believers and non-believers can battle each other in here forever?

One of these pops up regularly and ends up being locked.

Just a thought.
 
Dr Jobe Martin was never an Evolutionist, he was a one-time biology student who became a Dentist. His theological education is limited to Dispensational Premillennialism and is deeply rooted in the Historical-Grammatical method of interpretation, or more commonly refered to as Biblical Literalism, particularly in relation to Revelations and their belief in Futurism (that Revelations predict future events)

I would take any kind of opinion on Theology and/or Christology from this man with a large pinch of salt, in fact I would be inclined to simply ignore him.
 
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ringo747 said:
Just the same as you did when asked to provide positive evidence for your belief in the non-existence of God.
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:D

I have to admire your attitude in this thread Ringo, you've definitely stuck to your guns and defended your position well :)
 
Glaucus said:
I'm not sure what your point is?
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I'll quote myself and add emphasis:

Flooding has always been a common problem for many people in many parts of the world, especially in agrarian societies (i.e. everywhere until relatively recently). The effects are similar wherever you are and the people are much the same wherever you are, so it's not surprising to find similarities in ancient stories of flooding, stories shaped by many generations of retelling.
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Of course huge is difference for a start saying the entire world was flooded is likely to mean their known world. But there is evidence for millions of square km in specific regions to of been flooded in a devasting flood.
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I'm sure that there were some huge floods in specific areas at specific times or specific periods of time. The seperation of Britain from Europe, for example. The creation of the Mediterranean sea for another.

But they wouldn't account for flood stories from very different parts of the world. I can think of several explanations for that:

1) A global flood.

2) Numerous stories of localised (but the world to the local people) flooding with the similarities between the stories explained by flooding in different areas at different times having similar effects on similar people in similar circumstances and strengthened by conflation of some or all of the stories at a later date.

3) Localised flooding in the earliest years of humanity (when all humans were in the same area) and stories of it maintained by retelling throughout the millenia as humans spread out.


I think that (2) is most likely.
 
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