Distance Selling Regulations

[Vanquish-Storm]

Little DSR questions that is most likely obvious to some people here but I can not get my head round it.

If a customer returns an item within the 7 day ruling (I know this can be longer but 7 is minimum) but returns the item as "no reason to specify" or "not required" are they covered for a full refund including standard delivery charges?

Basically is the above situation a return under DSR? Does the customer not need to state within the 7 day period they are returning the item under DSR?

Also a bit of a side questions, if a customer chooses a express delivery service that is not covered for a refund under DSR correct?

 

[Raymond Lin]

I treat DSR as looking at something in store.

1 - I don't expect them to refund me my petrol so I see postage as a write off, so I don't expect it back.
2 - You can't watch a film and decide not like it, since you can't do that at the shop.
3 - So if I am at the shop, looking at at hammer, I just hand it back, don't need to give a reason.

If it is broken then it comes under other legislations.

p.s. 7 days is the Maximum, not minimum. Working Days. So Monday to Friday.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

DSR says refund of postage to get it to him, I don't think it specifys if thats restricted to normal postage costs, good question.
Return postage is due unless terms and conditions specify its not, AND you comply with the restrictions on when andhow you give the T&Cs.

Its 7 working days starting the day after its delivered.

The customer only has to advise its being returned not physically return within that timescale.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

I treat DSR as looking at something in store.

1 - I don't expect them to refund me my petrol so I see postage as a write off, so I don't expect it back.
2 - You can't watch a film and decide not like it, since you can't do that at the shop.
3 - So if I am at the shop, looking at at hammer, I just hand it back, don't need to give a reason.

If it is broken then it comes under other legislations.

p.s. 7 days is the Maximum, not minimum. Working Days. So Monday to Friday.

Thanks for the quick reply (Always get a quick reply from you on my threads! )

Regarding postage, I think every return I have dealt with the customer has expected refund for total cost to them including postage.

The bit that gets me is when a customer returns something as "no longer needed" but then expects a full refund including postage which then means we have made a loss due to a customer not wanting something.

With the 7 day thing your right in that a customer has a maximum of 7 days to contact regarding a return. I meant that as a company you have to give 7 days for contact as a minimum but some companies give more time.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

This is a pretty simple clear guide.

Looked up the postage and it makes no reference to premium services so IMO you still have to refund the total amount paid.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

Oh and I don't think they need to specify its a return under DSR, although its my interpretation, I read the guide that ANY return within DSR timescales counts as a DSR return.
I don't think you have any right as a supplier to demand a reason for the return.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

Standard delivery costs must be refunded, but the costs of additional services that a customer specifically requested, such as gift wrapping or express delivery, may be withheld if:

- the additional services were provided under a separate contract
-you had the customer’s agreement to start the additional services before the end of the cancellation period
-you provided the customer with the required written information before you started the additional services, including information that the cancellation rights would end as soon as you started to carry out the additional services.

So if the company terms and conditions state that "Express delivery service costs will not be refunded in the case of any returns" It is okay under DSR?

 

[trojan698]

call them, 7 days, get it in the postbox. c

 

[Raymond Lin]

oh, I get most of my stuff with Free Postage Online so never had to argue that part

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

Just as another note. This is not for me returning something. I am attempting to come up with terms and conditions (rules for staff dealing with returns) for our department.

@Raymond Lin - we will be offering a free postage option (2nd Class RM) but not sure with regards to recorded and next day.

ANOTHER off topic question; if you ordered from a marketplace seller on Amazon and chose expedited delivery would you accept it as being under RM 1st Class Recorded for small, light and low value items. The reasoning behind this is paying the extra for expedited delivery guarantees a same day dispatch (up until a point, usually 5pm) and RM 1st Class Recorded is classed as a 1-2 day delivery which is all Amazon ask for under their criteria.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

Double Post!

 

[PeterNem]

You have to refund the postage cost which the customer paid as part of the original sale to get the item to them.

You should also refund the cost of the customer returning the item to you (unless the conditions of sale which the customer agreed to specifically state that return postage costs are not covered).

E.g.,

Item costs £50
P&P of £5

You'd have to refund them £55. You'd also need to either 1) reimburse them for return postage costs, 2) collect the item from them at your cost or 3) state in the T&Cs that return postage costs are not covered. If you don't do 3, then you must do 1 or 2.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

You have to refund the postage cost which the customer paid as part of the original sale to get the item to them.

You should also refund the cost of the customer returning the item to you (unless the conditions of sale which the customer agreed to specifically state that return postage costs are not covered).
Item costs £50
P&P of £5

E.g.,


You'd have to refund them £55. You'd also need to either 1) reimburse them for return postage costs, 2) collect the item from them at your cost or 3) state in the T&Cs that return postage costs are not covered. If you don't do 3, then you must do 1 or 2.

We provide a freepost address for returns and pay for returns ourselves if the return is due to our mistakes. If not our T&C state returns must be paid by the customer.

From my earlier post though if a customer upgrades their delivery to expedited or express that cost does not have to be refunded correct?

EDIT:

Example 1:

Item cost: £50
Standard Postage: £0

Refund would be £50

Example 2:

Item cost: £50
Upgrade postage £8

Refund would be £50

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

We provide a freepost address for returns and pay for returns ourselves if the return is due to our mistakes. If not our T&C state returns must be paid by the customer.

From my earlier post though if a customer upgrades their delivery to expedited or express that cost does not have to be refunded correct?

EDIT:

Example 1:

Item cost: £50
Standard Postage: £0

Refund would be £50

Example 2:

Item cost: £50
Upgrade postage £8

Refund would be £50

All postage has to be unless (highly unlikely) its a seperate contract, I am not really sure how you would go about making it seperate since your pretty likely to issue one invoice against one order.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

All postage has to be unless (highly unlikely) its a seperate contract, I am not really sure how you would go about making it seperate since your pretty likely to issue one invoice against one order.

My quote in post number 6 is the wording regarding additional services that a customer specifically requested.

Would all three criteria need to be covered or is it if one of those criteria is covered.

Example: "you had the customer’s agreement to start the additional services before the end of the cancellation period" is covered so would that not be enough to hold back refunding special delivery.

If not then the DSR are wide open to abuse by customers.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

My quote in post number 6 is the wording regarding additional services that a customer specifically requested.

Would all three criteria need to be covered or is it if one of those criteria is covered.

Example: "you had the customer’s agreement to start the additional services before the end of the cancellation period" is covered so would that not be enough to hold back refunding special delivery.

If not then the DSR are wide open to abuse by customers.

They really are as everyone (or just about everyone) feels.

I will go re-read that section and see what I think, this is part of the issue is that even though its a simplified guide its still quite complex with quite a few extra clarifications.

 

[PeterNem]

Example 1:

Item cost: £50
Standard Postage: £0

Refund would be £50

Example 2:

Item cost: £50
Upgrade postage £8

Refund would be £50

In example 2 you should be refunding £58.

It's part of your cost of doing business - you need to cover it either by recovering your exposure to the cost of returns postage by increasing all your prices, or by cutting cost elsewhere.

It's up to the consumer whether or not they "abuse" this - it's not something that's discretionary on your part.

edit: just read the bit about separate contract - surely you're invoicing for this all in one go? In which case I'd expect the total cost down on the invoice to be refunded.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

In example 2 you should be refunding £58.

It's part of your cost of doing business - you need to cover it either by recovering your exposure to the cost of returns postage by increasing all your prices, or by cutting cost elsewhere.

It's up to the consumer whether or not they "abuse" this - it's not something that's discretionary on your part.

edit: just read the bit about separate contract - surely you're invoicing for this all in one go? In which case I'd expect the total cost down on the invoice to be refunded.

Even though as an additional service express delivery can be withheld from refund?

EDIT: From your edited bit

You can invoice several contracts/services into one invoice though?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

My quote in post number 6 is the wording regarding additional services that a customer specifically requested.

Would all three criteria need to be covered or is it if one of those criteria is covered.

Example: "you had the customer’s agreement to start the additional services before the end of the cancellation period" is covered so would that not be enough to hold back refunding special delivery.

If not then the DSR are wide open to abuse by customers.

I think its all 3, because the second one lists an "and" at the end so I think your supposed to read that as one sentence.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

I think its all 3, because the second one lists an "and" at the end so I think your supposed to read that as one sentence.

I do not see an and? I must be missing something

I have changed the quote to how it was displayed on the site:

http://oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/dshome/dsrexplained

Under "Your customers’ rights on refunds and returning goods" and the under "What has to be refunded?"

I do not see an "and" or even an "or"

Under my interpretation I believe all three criteria are covered still.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I do not see an and? I must be missing something

I have changed the quote to how it was displayed on the site:

http://oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/dshome/dsrexplained

Under "Your customers’ rights on refunds and returning goods" and the under "What has to be refunded?"

I do not see an "and" or even an "or"

Under my interpretation I believe all three criteria are covered still.

3.49 If you provided additional services such as gift wrapping or express
delivery that a consumer specifically requested, then you may
withhold the additional charges incurred by the consumer for these
services only if:

1 the additional services were provided under a separate contract
2 you had the consumer’s agreement to start the additional services
before the end of the cancellation period, and
3 you provided the consumer with the required written information
before you started the additional services, including information
that the cancellation rights would end as soon as you started to
carry out the additional services.

I added the 1, 2 and 3 just to clarify where the and is, at the end of point 2, but they are not numbered on the original