Unemployed obese people - start losing weight or lose your benefits

Spud21 said:
Wow what a cracking idea, lets not look at the reasons why people eat crap food and lets just moan at them for it, typical government crap.

The reason most people eat complete grabage is they simply have no idea how to actually cook food, i don't mean they can't knock up a tasty coq au vin or anything complicated you could stick the most basic ingredients in front of them and they have no idea what to do. I remember watching Jamies ministry of food, and there were people who have no idea what water looks like in a pan when it is boiling, people were trying to cook pasta in luke warm water, there are swathes of people out there who would look as if you've just asked them to find the higgs boson particle with nothing more than a block of cheese, if you presented them with and asked them to prepare something as simple as an onion.

By failing miserably to teach kids to cook in schools we have bred a large number of people who's only real option is processed ready meals and junk food as they would know how to even rustle up an incredibly basic pasta dish, this is why people think that eating healthily is expensive because they don't know any better. Russled up a very tasty and quick lunch for me and the good lady yesterday that cost maybe £3 consisting of some wholewheat pasta, a tin of organic tomotoes, an onion, some garlic and some basil, you could easily feed a family of 4 on that for one meal, and nip into asda and get some cheap stuff and its going to cost next to nothing, i reckon you could feed a family of 5 a basic spag bol for less then £4 for the whole lot.

If we don't teach people to cook then they are going to eat crap.
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This simply isn't true. Cooking to a basic level is certainly attainable by every able bodied person. Everyone has access to the internet these days and I'm sure there are millions of recipes and demonstration videos on youtube etc showing people how they can cook healthy meals both cheaply and in minimal time. Ignorance is not the problem, the problem is laziness and the will to learn; it is much more tempting to take the oven-ready pizza and chips approach because it is easier. It is no surprise that those on benefits tend to have the most health problem. It has nothing to do with stress, inability to afford food or anything else, it comes down to laziness.
 
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Spud21 said:
If we don't teach people to cook then they are going to eat crap.
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People also need to want to learn for teaching to work, and the current state of entitlement plus laziness of most people means takeaways and ready-meals tick all their boxes.

When I was growing up I loved food, and took an interest in helping my mum in the kitchen. When I moved to the UK at 19, I had to fend for myself, so quickly picked up how to cook things. It helped that I wasn't exposed to many ready-meals as a kid, but many children nowadays eat multiple ready-meals every week, so they find it the norm.
 
No one seems to have read the part where it says that it's for those who refuse to carry out "doctor prescribed exercise". It's not just all fat people on benefits...
 
int said:
No one seems to have read the part where it says that it's for those who refuse to carry out "doctor prescribed exercise". It's not just all fat people on benefits...
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And?
That isn't a. Good thing.
A) doctors n would recommend most people to do more exercise.
B) could stop people going to doctors

For what? An utterly retarded scheme, that won't work and is discriatory.
 
Conscript said:
Yeah, threatening to take their benefits away will definitely not increase that cycle of depression. Oh, wait...
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Motivational targets works for people in Sales... they're not jumping off bridges. Are those on benefits the great untouchables who need to be protected from the judgement of those who pay for their existence?


Conscript said:
What business is it of the governments if someone is fat? Why should they intervene, or start meddling with the welfare state to encourage people to change their lifestyle if they don't wish?
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It's not the Governments, it's healthcare professionals.


Conscript said:
What about benefit claimants who do have targets, are motivated, are actively seeking employment, but just happen to be overweight? How is it fair to penalise them? Where do you draw the line?
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If they're making a concerted effort, they wouldn't be penalised. Wouldn't free swimming be welcome to someone like yourself? I know it would be to me.


Conscript said:
What about claimants who are in low paid work but claim, for instance, for housing benefit and happen to be overweight? Do you demand they do exercise on top of working in order that their benefits aren't cut?
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How are you classifying overweight? Are they morbidly obese to the point they've developed diabetes and are hobbling about because of their great size? Why shouldn't they be given a push in the right direction?



Conscript said:
That's not necessarily true, is it?

I'm overweight. Technically, according to my BMI, I'm obese. I'm not overly happy about it, I am exercising and eating better, but I'm not putting any extra strain on the system. If I lost my job tomorrow, should I have benefits I'm entitled to restricted because the government deems my BMI too high and the level of exercise I do too little? Why?

Why have you made this leap that every fat person on benefits = a strain on the system because of their weight?
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Conscript said:
See my first point. Who cares how much effort they are putting into losing weight? What relevance does it have to their job seeking? At what point does the government say "you are now fat; do some exercise or lose your benefits". Is it when your BMI hits a predefined level? Is it because your a bit chubby?

This whole idea is ill thought through and unworkable. There are too many mitigating circumstances to take into account, both practical and emotional.

Some people are overweight through genuine eating disorders. They are sick and need help, not threatening with benefit reduction. What about sufferers of bulimia or anorexia? Also recognised eating disorders, sick people - should they be forced to eat more or risk having their benefits cut?
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You're running away with yourself, where did you get the notion that benefits will be stopped or denied at the first point if you're overweight?

If you're overweight to the point it's effecting your health you're already costing more money than the next person by taking up the time of the NHS. As obesity is a downward spiral it's only going to get worse so how is not a good idea to try and stem the issue before it costs more?
 
Glaucus said:
And?
That isn't a. Good thing.
A) doctors n would recommend most people to do more exercise.
B) could stop people going to doctors

For what? An utterly retarded scheme, that won't work and is discriatory.
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People won't go to the Doctors because they'd be afraid of being assigned exercise and would then not do it and run the possibility of losing benefit.

There in lies the problem, constant excuse making for the ****less. This is one of those that for some no explanation is necessary and for others no explanation will suffice.
 
Would be so much simpler to just gather them all up, put them into a form of work camp, and those that are unable to do 18 hours a day physical labour, get sent to help 'fuel' the economy, in a quite literal way (toss 'em into a power station furnace).. would solve all the problems pretty quick, and in a few months, there'd be nobody unemployed at all.
 
Ceryndrion said:
Would be so much simpler to just gather them all up, put them into a form of work camp, and those that are unable to do 18 hours a day physical labour, get sent to help 'fuel' the economy, in a quite literal way (toss 'em into a power station furnace).. would solve all the problems pretty quick, and in a few months, there'd be nobody unemployed at all.
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NO! What you do is send them off to the state funded lypo clinc, the fat that is removed is made into soap, explosives which is then sold on; after the fat is removed and if they still cannot work, give them employ at pharma to be test subjects so animals will no longer need to be tested on and we get safe medications.

Work will set them free.
 
I can't make my mind up what this is trying to achive..

Is it a genuine concern for the obese or simply being seen to "have a cunning plan" to save money to appease the people..

What is the difference between an obese rich banker and an obese bloke claiming benefits. Are they saying if you can pay your way eat up fatty, and if you claim benefits you wil be punished. You don't have the monopoly on being fat just because you claim benefits. There are are fair few fat MP's and pseudo celebs and no one talks about taking money from them.

If you really want to help them would you not stop the supermarkets selling cheap fat laden processed food and put better stuff on the shelves. It smacks of demonising one section of the population. If you're going to do that why stop there and do the same for smokers who won't stop smoking. What about the people who go to the gym too often and tear muscles/ligaments. Can we not think of a way to get a few quid out of them as-well?

Obesety will bring the NHS to it's knees over the next decade or so if it isn't addressed. I'm sure we will spend a fair few millions of tax payers money working it out and that's not counting healthcare cost.
 
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I wonder what they will use to classify people as obese, it will be funny if they used BMI and ended up with loads of fairly fit+well built people having their benefits effected as well. There are plenty of overweight people that have no fitness issues alongside it, they can't just say that fat = strain on society.
 
I'm not comfortable with this at all, Poor people, Pensioners, Smokers & now fat people, Whose next people over 6ft 2 ?
 
Kotu said:
I wonder what they will use to classify people as obese, it will be funny if they used BMI and ended up with loads of fairly fit+well built people having their benefits effected as well. There are plenty of overweight people that have no fitness issues alongside it, they can't just say that fat = strain on society.
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They use BMI, I'll be knackert as most people from the Gym Rats Thread! :eek:
 
Can it actually be proven beyond reasonable doubt that obese unemployed people are more of a strain on benefits and NHS than skinny unemployed people?

And as an extension - I'd imagine 20 years old active athlete who spends most of his afternoons between footie and gym is going to see NHS way more often than 20 years old couch potato who spends most of his afternoons between footie and batman on PS3. With probability of injuries related to activity alone.
 
v0n said:
Can it actually be proven beyond reasonable doubt that obese unemployed people are more of a strain on benefits and NHS than skinny unemployed people?

And as an extension - I'd imagine 20 years old active athlete who spends most of his afternoons between footie and gym is going to see NHS way more often than 20 years old couch potato who spends most of his afternoons between footie and batman on PS3. With probability of injuries related to activity alone.
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Giving someone an xray or two and a few casts and wraps is cheaper than half a lifetime of diabetes drugs.
Obese people do cost the NHS a fortune long term.


I'm in two minds about this proposal to be honest. I think fat people should certainly be paying their way somehow, just like smokers and drinkers do with their respective product taxes, but just targeting those on benefits is wrong.
 
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