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Intel's Haswell Architecture Analyzed in detail

TSX will make a huge difference to multithreaded applications. Right now, a lot of times different threads hold each other back just in case they tread on each others toes. TCX will mean you don't have to hold back other threads, as a conflict will be detected by the chip itself and allow the developer to resolve it.
 
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If Haswell is a 30% (or more) improvement over IB, you can bet Intel will cripple it back to the 10-15% range in order to release a further refresh later in the year, making it upto the 30% level.

That's what Intels all about these days...giving the consumer 'just enough' to upgrade.

And I've no doubt had AMD remained competative, Haswell would have been a 6 core release.
 
If Haswell is a 30% (or more) improvement over IB, you can bet Intel will cripple it back to the 10-15% range in order to release a further refresh later in the year, making it upto the 30% level.

That's what Intels all about these days...giving the consumer 'just enough' to upgrade.

And I've no doubt had AMD remained competative, Haswell would have been a 6 core release.
nail on the head.

there is no way Intel would allow 30% increase, even if it was possible. what, kill you're own LGA2011 market? pssh.

I'll eat my hair if it's any more than 15% and a better GPU.

I can guarantee it'll OC very very well though.
 
If you're desperate for 8 cores you could buy a Xeon. My Intel machine at work has 6 cores.

The idea is not getting utterly screwed on price.

Intel was making quad cores what, 6 years ago, and still haven't moved up despite the fact they EASILY could do. Again a 6 core Sandy/ivy without IGP would be marginally bigger, if really at all, and idle power, its just two more cores turned off, full use power could potentially be higher, almost certainly if they increased die size and went 8 core(still talking MUCH smaller than AMD chips with a better higher yield process so still much more profitable).

Intel simply haven't... thats it, they CAN, and really easily, really really easily. For everyone who will spend £250 now on a 4 core with HT, many of them would spend £300 on a 6-8 core without igp, others wouldn't.

Its the biggest whole in Intel's line up, most people can't afford and won't spend £450 on a high end hexcore, many people would spend £50 more for the chip they really want though, if they had hexcores in the i5 price range and octo's in the i7 price range both without IGP... we ALL win. :(


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/amd-details-its-3rd-gen-steamroller-architecture

As for AMD architecture/steamroller info.... there you go.

The single biggest weakness, and its humoungous, is that front end decoder basically having a lower throughput than a Phenom hexcore. In single core its not actually that bad... because the decoder is shared, though it means even a single very basic thread, a background OS thread, AV, whatever takes instructions away from the first core, and for power reasons the chip will use one module and one decoder rather than power up 2 or more modules. That means if you run something completely single threaded its likely only one module is fully powered up and any basic OS threads(there are loads) will be on the second core in a module and taking away performance from the other core.

Look at the table for instruction numbers, then take Bulldozer and double each number of instruction decodes at every level(except single core), even in single core while its still 4 instructions per core it means with one module powered up both cores have a 4 instruction decoder, so single high performance thread on one core isn't now effected by everything else your computer does which will be shunted to the second core.

THen read the rest of the article, Intel is not at the peak for Core architecture, but its near its peak, there is only so much to be gained every generation from improving branch predicting and the like(even if you reduce brand mispredicts by 20% every generation, that 20% is of a smaller number of mi****s each generation and has a smaller and smaller effect). AMD is at the very bottom end of its architecture, each 20% reduction in cache mi****s will have a pretty huge effect.

The decode itself is being stated to probably boost single core performance by 20-25%, multithreaded performance will increase even more. Going from a potential 16 instructions a clock decoded, to 32.

The trouble with Bulldozer was, its an 8 core, 8 real cores, and they needed to share resources to fit it in and I said at the time, Bulldozer was about shrinking cores to fit 8 on a die(and its still an efficient way to do so) but further generations on newer processes will get more space and will widen the inside of each core essentially.

Intel have boosted per core performance but have decided as yet they can't afford to fit 8 real cores on a die, AMD decided to go ahead and push 8 cores on die and not focus yet on per die performance.

In two generations AMD will have 8 cores and each core will be very fast, Intel will have 8 cores and each one will be very fast. There is two parts, fitting in 8 cores, increasing per die speed, upgrades A and B, Intel is doing A then B, AMD is doing B then A.

Bulldozer is a very smart architecture, but needs to be "unlocked" with each new process allowing it to release the limits, it can fit in more per core hardware, micro-op instruction queues, better cache, more L1 cache, more decoder resources, more integer resources, etc, etc.

Don't forget that the modules themselves are very efficient and small for a dual core module and those modules are being used effectively in Trinity, and are what Bobcat and Kabini/Jaguar are based on, which are great little chips also improving. The architecture is a good step forward, and it simply made more sense to put 4 slimmer ones on a single die than 2 fat ones for the high end chip for Bulldozer/Piledriver. If AMD had the money Intel had, and was also on 22nm, Bulldozer would have launched on 28-22nm and started off life as Steamroller.
 
Intel simply haven't... thats it, they CAN, and really easily, really really easily.

Reminds me when Intel said no way, theres no need for 64bit on a non business CPU. then along came AMD and suddenly...

I agree with the premise that both AMD and Intel will end up with very fast 8+ core enthusiast or home desktop processors but by differing routes.

Which will be better or even different in five years remains to be seen but I will give AMD an evens bet that it will be very close and Intel will need to be pushed as usual.
 
Bulldozer is a very smart architecture, but needs to be "unlocked" with each new process allowing it to release the limits, it can fit in more per core hardware, micro-op instruction queues, better cache, more L1 cache, more decoder resources, more integer resources, etc, etc.

An interesting read and nice to see someone talk so positively of AMD CPUs for once :)

But it's going to be very hard for AMD to "unlock" with each new process. What new processes? Have you got some secret information that global foundries have pulled its head out of its arse? ;)

In some ways it makes me jump for joy that Intel's fab tech is so amazing; but at the same time it makes me weep since AMD has so much catching up to do when it comes to process tech, and yet they have nowhere to turn (and certainly not the 124712398491208419 billion $$$ needed to start their own fabs and catch up to Intel).
 
drunkenmaster said:
Intel have boosted per core performance but have decided as yet they can't afford to fit 8 real cores on a die, AMD decided to go ahead and push 8 cores on die and not focus yet on per die performance.
Intel already do 10 cores on a chip, it's just not a desktop part. There is very little demand for that amount of threadedness in the desktop space.

drunkenmaster said:
Don't forget that the modules themselves are very efficient and small for a dual core module and those modules are being used effectively in Trinity, and are what Bobcat and Kabini/Jaguar are based on, which are great little chips also improving. The architecture is a good step forward, and it simply made more sense to put 4 slimmer ones on a single die than 2 fat ones for the high end chip for Bulldozer/Piledriver. If AMD had the money Intel had, and was also on 22nm, Bulldozer would have launched on 28-22nm and started off life as Steamroller.
Trinity / Fusion is a really good platform so far, despite the hiccups it's had (in supply and market positioning). Trinity's transistor density is almost 3x that of Piledriver's. AMD's chips suffer badly from latency (Far more clock cycles spent idle), which aren't necessarily a problem when dealing with massively parallel workloads, but are a problem when single threaded performance is important. Single threaded performance is still very important in the real, and this explains Intel's desktop processors in the market (Fewer cores, more clocks).

SirCanealot said:
In some ways it makes me jump for joy that Intel's fab tech is so amazing; but at the same time it makes me weep since AMD has so much catching up to do when it comes to process tech, and yet they have nowhere to turn (and certainly not the 124712398491208419 billion $$$ needed to start their own fabs and catch up to Intel).
Nobody wept when tens, if not hundreds, of memory producers dropped out of the market during the price crashes of DDR, DDR2 and DDR3. AMD are fabless and have the opportunity to thrive (look at Nvidia!) it just takes an adjustment in organisation structure. There is still a large amount of money to be made from designing chips - ARM are a perfect example.

The actual production of microchips is a different topic. The vertical integration that Intel has is unusual, and it allows them to leverage good products on a market-leading production process. It's not impossible to imagine that in 10 years time, Intel will stop producing their own fabs and spin it off in a similar manner as Global Foundries / TMSC.

Haswell is going to be a great chip, even if it is 'only' an evolutionary improvement.
 
http://www.techpowerup.com/178068/I...elayed-till-Computex-2013-No-Show-at-CES.html


It looks like Intel's Core "Haswell" processor family will miss its anticipated March-May launch window, with the company choosing Computex 2013 as its next launch-pad. According to a leaked document intended for distributors and large retailers, desktop Core "Haswell" processors will launch only after May 27, before June 7, and retailers are told to hold off advertising the launch till June 2nd.

Among the products featuring in the new May 27 - June 7 launch window are the Core i7-4770K flagship product, i7-4770, i7-4770S, i7-4770T, i7-4765T, i5-4670K, i5-4670, i5-4670S, i5-4670T, i5-4570, i5-4570S, i5-4570T, i5-4430, and i5-4430S, all of which are quad-core parts. In addition, socket LGA1150 motherboards based on Intel Z87 (flagship, OC-ready), H87, Q87, Q85, and B85 chipsets, will be launched. In all likelihood, one piece of decoration the CES venue could miss, is the wall of LGA1150 motherboards, which is usually put up by Intel.

There could still be the odd unexpected LGA1150 motherboard backroom-disclosure by manufacturers, but those could be at early stages of development. Given that Intel plans to launch its platform towards the beginning of Computex, CeBIT (March 2013) is a more probable venue for Intel's wall of motherboards.
 
Gunna refuse to change unless there is at least a 20-30% bump in performance. Just like I missed Ivy and stuck with SB.

Unfortunately with AMD out of the game Intel are back to screwing us and will probably charge a stupid premium for anything with more than 4 cores (a bit like they are doing now I guess)
 
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