Poll: Benefit cap vote.

[elmarko]

Are you sure of that too?

On the BBC website it doesn't specify anything different, just a blanket freeze for child benefit (in regards to disabled children).

Do you have anything to suggest otherwise?.

Besides, it makes little difference to how morally repugnant it is to expect the poorest in society to pick up the tab for the mistakes of the last few governments.

This thread smacks of Schadenfreude to me.

 

[Amleto]

I'd like to know how that stat was calculated as well. For example my parents have now both retired so as of now they are taking in more in benefits than they are paying in tax, but what about the amount they paid in the past?

doesn't matter. What matters is whether is is sustainable.

 

[MrMoonX]

the whole governments rhetoric is just awful and shockingly ill-advised

over 60% of the people effected by this bill are working families, so the whole we will support those in work BS is actually false.

You seriously cannot take any of the condems seriously when they expect the poorest in society to pay for the financial mistakes of greedy bankers and the last government, when you give tax breaks to corporations and millionaires, whilst failing to collect the taxes properly from those who donate to your party.

 

[Nitefly]

Without knowing too much about it... not rising with inflation seems pretty harsh

 

[MrMoonX]

also you dont see the greedy MPs not claiming expenses, its pretty shocking that they still expect their effective employer to pay for their travel to/from work (sometimes chauffeur driven) , meals, booze, housing and a whole host of other made up stuff. Seriously where else would you find an employer who does this

 

[Muffin`]

On the BBC website it doesn't specify anything different, just a blanket freeze for child benefit (in regards to disabled children).

Do you have anything to suggest otherwise?.

Well I was just going to say that it specifically mentions that disability benefits are ring fenced to go up with inflation. How much does this increase of only 1.1% and not 2.2% for child benefit equate to per week for a family currently receiving the allowance? Do you have any figures? I've seen the figure of a few pounds a week banded round recently, hardly 'morally repugnant' is it?

Besides, it makes little difference to how morally repugnant it is to expect the poorest in society to pick up the tab for the mistakes of the last few governments.

Keep shaking that money tree, the bond markets will fall on you eventually.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

also you dont see the greedy MPs not claiming expenses, its pretty shocking that they still expect their effective employer to pay for their travel to/from work (sometimes chauffeur driven) , meals, booze, housing and a whole host of other made up stuff. Seriously where else would you find an employer who does this

It doesn't matter if another employer did this if it is a private company. If it is a tax funded company such as politics or the NHS then I 100% agree.

 

[Muffin`]

the whole governments rhetoric is just awful and shockingly ill-advised

over 60% of the people effected by this bill are working families, so the whole we will support those in work BS is actually false.

You seriously cannot take any of the condems seriously when they expect the poorest in society to pay for the financial mistakes of greedy bankers and the last government, when you give tax breaks to corporations and millionaires, whilst failing to collect the taxes properly from those who donate to your party.

You do know that tax free allowance is going up don't you? Off setting it... before you bashed that out...

 

[MrMoonX]

It doesn't matter if another employer did this if it is a private company. If it is a tax funded company such as politics or the NHS then I 100% agree.

I know but what im trying to say that even in the private sector that kinda number is very very rare, why should our taxes be funding it for a bunch of elected officials

 

[estebanrey]

Without knowing too much about it... not rising with inflation seems pretty harsh

So is expecting workers to put up with seeing their earned money raising less than inflation whilst seeing people who get 'free' money (whether they are in work or not) go up faster.

Pensions and disability payment should rise with inflation (which they are) but why should the umemployed or people with kids see their payments rise faster than mine?

 

[MrMoonX]

You do know that tax free allowance is going up don't you? Off setting it... before you bashed that out...

its still taking money away from 60% of working families, inclusive of the minute allowance increase, check the BBC/Guardian website its all there

it doesnt offset it at all


What should happen is that the government should legislate for a living wage rather than a **** poor minimum then we wouldnt need tax credits for working people

 

[Muffin`]

also you dont see the greedy MPs not claiming expenses, its pretty shocking that they still expect their effective employer to pay for their travel to/from work (sometimes chauffeur driven) , meals, booze, housing and a whole host of other made up stuff. Seriously where else would you find an employer who does this

It's pretty shocking that we only pay the people who we elect to reflect our views and interest on what's best for our country only £60,000 (in London!). That's why the expenses system was abused so much as it was a (wrongly) open system that gave an easy way of giving MP's a stealth pay increase without letting those with a chip on their shoulder something to complain about.

 

[MrMoonX]

So is expecting workers to put up with seeing their earned money raising less than inflation whilst seeing people who get 'free' money (whether they are in work or not) go up faster.

Pensions and disability payment should rise with inflation (which they are) but why should the umemployed or people with kids see their payments rise faster than mine?

so if you ever become unemployed after years of paying into the system its alright to be screwed with a real terms cut in benefits ????

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

So is expecting workers to put up with seeing their earned money raising less than inflation whilst seeing people who get 'free' money (whether they are in work or not) go up faster.

Pensions and disability payment should rise with inflation (which they are) but why should the umemployed or people with kids see their payments rise faster than mine?

I agree.

My mother works in a school and has had a 0% raise for the last 4 years.
If she has had an effective pay cut so should the scrubbers.

 

[Westyfield2]

Should be whatever those working in he private sector have been getting... which for many over the last few years has been no rise, and thus with inflation an overall reduction.

 

[MrMoonX]

It's pretty shocking that we only pay the people who we elect to reflect our views and interest on what's best for our country only £60,000 (in London!). That's why the expenses system was abused so much as it was a (wrongly) open system that gave an easy way of giving MP's a stealth pay increase without letting those with a chip on their shoulder something to complain about.

Its called the house of commons they should be paid the average living wage only! £60,000 is more than double that, so they are doing nicely quite frankly

 

[MrMoonX]

I agree.

My mother works in a school and has had a 0% raise for the last 4 years.
If she has had an effective pay cut so should the scrubbers.

why do you think its ok to call people on benefits "scrubbers" ? it just shows the governments rhetoric is working, there are very few people on benefits that fit the daily fails picture of scroungers or scrubbers. What would you do if you lost your job and had to claim JSA, would it be OK to call you a scrubber

 

[estebanrey]

so if you ever become unemployed after years of paying into the system its alright to be screwed with a real terms cut in benefits ????

Eh? You're acting like I'm saying unemployment benefit shouldn't exist.

I don't think it's fair, that people on JSA get 2-3% rises each year when me and a lot of my friends can't remember the last time we had a pay rise.

 

[MrMoonX]

Eh? You're acting like I'm saying unemployment benefit shouldn't exist.

I don't think it's fair, that people on JSA get 2-3% rises each year when me and a lot of my friends can't remember the last time we had a pay rise.

but you are not living on £71 a week, I'd imagine thats pretty hard

the whole turning workers against the unemployed is all part of the tory wet dream, and judging by the language and behaviour of some in this thread its working, cant we just simply accept that the state needs to help people through a benefits system, when they become sick, unemployed etc.

I havent had a real terms pay rise for 6 years and I was a public sector worker (so that was also BS about public sector getting pay rises) I wouldnt want to see the government make poor people poorer, which is what this does. Especially when helping the rich get richer

 

[Danthus]

What should happen is that the government should legislate for a living wage rather than a **** poor minimum then we wouldnt need tax credits for working people

Do you think that would help the economy?