Is the copyright industry shooting itself in the foot?

Bring forward services where one does not pay ridiculous amounts for content and let people choose if they want to pay or not. As said by someone else on this thread, you have people who would go free forever. Then you have those who WILL pay if offered a better service.

Netflix for example sucks in the UK, the price you pay is great.. content not so much. You can't even use Pandora for example in the UK unless you go through changing proxys/vpn etc.

I pay a monthly fee for Spotify which feeds my music needs, everything else is fishy to say the least due to the incompetence of the digital industry in distributing content to end users for exorbitant prices.

I pay for services which I deem to be better value for my money, whether or not this goes into piracy or not. Give me a better service for content on manageable fees and I will pay.
 
[TW]Fox;23512895 said:
I'd pay good money - easily as much as a semi-decent sky subscription - to have the ability to download television (perhaps not even movies) in a form I could watch on whatever device I wanted, however I want. I spend a lot of time travelling and streaming doesn't work. I want to watch content when I'm travelling and I can't, because I can't put a DVD in a tablet and I can't stream Netflix with a variable mobile data connection.
Same here, if it had the top shows (Game Of Thrones, Dexter etc) - ones which normally I'd have to wait a year plus (which in that time you are almost certain to come across plot spoilers if you go online often).
 
I buy my games in steam sales. But iv usually already tried them around release. Honestly I dont know why I try them at release. They never work. by the time they are at a price I consider reasonable (IE steam sale prices) they work enough to play.

But I do always buy them on steam at a later point. If I enjoyed the game, the developers certainly deserve my money. (Just not £40 a pop! for 3 hours fun!)

Music iv started buying what I love same reasons above. CDs are a pain in the arse though. And I believe with Itunes.. if you for whatever reason lose your music you have to buy it again? I may be wrong.

Movies... ok im terrible with those. I just cant afford them. And I want to watch them in 1080p without streaming... so yeah...


If I could afford to pay I would (and I do when I can) I enjoy buying it to be honest.


Its rare I pirate games now days tbh. Though when i was in my highschool years it was extremely rare for me to actually buy a game legit.
 
It seems that most people who say that copyright infringement is stealing don't understand the subject they're trying to discuss.

Oh the ironing.

As has been said, the artists get very little regardless (look to the post about Megaupload and what they were planning to do).

There is no argument as for why the labels should get more money, they simply don't deserve it.

Artists should get more money, yeah, piracy isn't really something that affects the artists, it affects the labels.

The biggest change to the music industry isn't going to be the effects of piracy but the fact that a lot of artists no-longer require expensive production facilities to get a record out, they just need pro-tools on a laptop. As a result someone can arrive at a number of labels with a fully formed product and that puts them in a better bargaining position.

They still, however, require expensive promotion and probably some image management (although this is debatable) and this is what the label invests in. The label puts the investment in for this and for touring, etc and takes a risk on the fact the artist will be successful and make good sales.

Because of the number of artists which sink without a trace outweighs the number who take off and actually become profitable the labels form their contracts to ensure a small number of successful artists can support the discovery and promotion of more artists, most of whom won't make it.

Piracy directly affects the artists; to say anything else is laughable. Artist contracts are on a percentage basis as are producer deals, photography deals, session musician deals, featured artist deals, etc. Whenever a sale is made or a piece is licenced for a film / advert or a shown on YouTube then everyone gets a percentage. Stealing music takes directly from everyone.

You want to see who takes the biggest share of the pot then look no further than Apple.

I pay a monthly fee for Spotify which feeds my music needs, everything else is fishy to say the least due to the incompetence of the digital industry in distributing content to end users for exorbitant prices.

I pay for services which I deem to be better value for my money, whether or not this goes into piracy or not. Give me a better service for content on manageable fees and I will pay.

The artists and labels get virtually nothing form Spotify and the artists I speak to hate it. They know it's the future and are resigned to it but it's driving down price so much that there will no money in releasing music. All releases will simply be promotion for tours.
 
Last edited:
[DOD]Asprilla;23514204 said:
Oh the ironing.
Ah haha hahaha


The biggest change to the music industry isn't going to be the effects of piracy but the fact that a lot of artists no-longer require expensive production facilities to get a record out, they just need pro-tools on a laptop. As a result someone can arrive at a number of labels with a fully formed product and that puts them in a better bargaining position.

Well now that's not the point I was making and you probably know it. There's plenty of people who don't need any involvement with record companies. My point was that in the past, record labels were a must simply because people with talent had no way of putting together music recordings with a professional finish.

Now technology has moved on so much, a record label isn't required at all for the production at all.

They still, however, require expensive promotion and probably some image management (although this is debatable) and this is what the label invests in. The label puts the investment in for this and for touring, etc and takes a risk on the fact the artist will be successful and make good sales.

Well not really, the ones with the least talent are the ones more likely to require a record label to prop them up and tell everyone how good they are, and sell them as a product.

Because of the number of artists which sink without a trace outweighs the number who take off and actually become profitable the labels form their contracts to ensure a small number of successful artists can support the discovery and promotion of more artists, most of whom won't make it.

Good musicians are ditching the labels, so the type of people using labels now are generally those who produce rubbish music, and they little to nothing anyway.

Piracy directly affects the artists; to say anything else is laughable. Artist contracts are on a percentage basis as are producer deals, photography deals, session musician deals, featured artist deals, etc. Whenever a sale is made or a piece is licenced for a film / advert or a shown on YouTube then everyone gets a percentage. Stealing music takes directly from everyone.

Nope, it's not laughable at all. Artists who make good music don't rely too heavily on mainstream big labels anyway. They make their big money from tours and merchandise sales directly to their fans at shows.

Constantly insisting that piracy is theft doesn't make it theft, no matter how emotional and bent out of shape you get over it.

You just make yourself look stupid with the insistence.



You want to see who takes the biggest share of the pot then look no further than Apple.

The bottom line though is that Apple are just selling the music, an artist would make more going straight to Apple to get their stuff on iTunes than they would going through a record label, who are generally there to rip off as many people as they want.


The artists and labels get virtually nothing form Spotify and the artists I speak to hate it. They know it's the future and are resigned to it but it's driving down price so much that there will no money in releasing music. All releases will simply be promotion for tours.

The future was actually what megaupload were going to do before he got manhandled by the US government.

That in itself shows that record labels aren't required, and that they're just trying their best to cling on to an antiquated system that really isn't needed.

Oh, and the very fact that record labels think it's okay for them to pirate stuff undermines any complaints they have ever for people pirating any of the content they own.
 
I used to pirate music all the time. I've probably bought a dozen albums in my life because I like to listen a very wide range of music and could never (and still could never) afford to buy everything that I listen to. I signed up to Spotify Premium for £9.99 a month just over a year ago and haven't looked back since. 99% of artists I listen to are on it, it's in the cloud so I have the same playlists at home, at work, on my phone and everywhere else, its shareable (we have a collaborative playlist at work), social (friends regularly send my recommendations straight to my inbox) and it's all downloadable to my phone for offline use. Perfect.

I still download films (as well as buy Blu-rays) because there's no easy and affordable alternative.

For a start, why do you even have to buy Blu-rays from Play/Amazon etc? There's a chunk of money going to one of many middle-men. In an ideal world I'd like to buy a Blu-ray which would also give me access to a digital stream or download immediately. I then have the best of the "I want to watch it now" world as well as owning it physically to watch in the future. Or of course just the option to own it digitally for stream or download at any time. I've tried Lovefilm and the choice was just absolutely rubbish.
 
There's a TED talk which looks at the fashion industry and the way the looser copyright laws have allowed it to grow - Some interesting points on the issue.

http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html


Johanna Blakley - Lessons From Fashion said:
...Now, those of you who are familiar with the logic behind copyright protection -- which is that without ownership, there is no incentive to innovate -- might be really surprised by both the critical success of the fashion industry and the economic success of this industry. What I'm going to argue today is that because there's no copyright protection in the fashion industry, fashion designers have actually been able to elevate utilitarian design, things to cover our naked bodies, into something that we consider art. Because there's no copyright protection in this industry, there's a very open and creative ecology of creativity.
 
Last edited:
They should copy the pirates make movie's available to download in various sizes 700mb, 3gb, 25gb etc, they don't even need to pay for the bandwidth just copy Napster. Drop the middle man and gives what we want.
 
...Now, those of you who are familiar with the logic behind copyright protection -- which is that without ownership, there is no incentive to innovate -- might be really surprised by both the critical success of the fashion industry and the economic success of this industry. What I'm going to argue today is that because there's no copyright protection in the fashion industry, fashion designers have actually been able to elevate utilitarian design, things to cover our naked bodies, into something that we consider art. Because there's no copyright protection in this industry, there's a very open and creative ecology of creativity.

It's called a 'design' :o :p

Edit - in fairness, you are practically entirely right.
 
were possible i pay for everything i DL for 2 reasons
1) i like to be legal
2) i know that if i dont support the artist with money he stop make the music/tv/film/game i enjoy so much (and i only dl stuff i enjoy)

however the copyright industry doesn't make life easy for for it self, as most people see them in a bad light. take happy birthday to you (a song that was listed in a BBC program as to have made the most money for it copyright holder) a song that first appeared around the start of the 1900's will be in copyright to the year 2030 (thanks to the legal moves the copyright holder has made) and may stay in copyright well after that. and they are many other examples of music/films that should now be public domain but are still in copyright thanks to greedy firms that own the copyright, and that what a lot of people think when they they think copyright, they think greed.
hence when i do watch something on youtube that i believe to be in copyright, i don't loose any sleep over it
 
There's simply no argument for why people should be entitled to the work of another, gratis. A lack of options doesn't make copyright infringement okay.

This. I don't walk out of the supermarket without paying and then claim their model is broken yet people seem to think its ok with music.

Mates of mine who are reasonably successful in the industry as artists are busting their nads to make money; constantly touring to make ends meet and they get pretty upset when they see people just taking stuff they have sweated to create and trying to claim its free.
 
I don't think people in their living rooms realise just how deep, complicated, multilevel and entrenched copyright asset world is.
Just to give you tiny, tiny example of how convoluted copyright world is. You arrive in a hotel somewhere on the outskirts of Europe. Let's say in Buda. Or Pest. Or both in the same time. You sit down, switch on TV, House M.D. is on. But you notice it doesn't have the usual iconic prologue music. It's no longer Massive Attack "Teardrop". It's something that sounds a lot like it, but not quite the same. Why?
"Teardrop" was released under Virgin label in US and UK. Distribution of the copyright material was handled by Capitol Music Group as publisher. Which in turn was owned by Thorn EMI, a property of EMI Group, which is owned by Universal Music Group. Property of Vivendi Universal Group. Owned by General Electric. Which is how "Teardrop" became the prologue music, because GE=NBC Universal=NBC, the parent network of House M.D. However, the license holder group that bought copyrights to House M.D. in that part of the world is owned by another group, property of yet another entity, and ten levels up the ladder later, the mothership is Sony Music Entertainment. Which has no right to distribute or promote Universal Music Group's music content, therefore, tada - there is an alternative soundtrack to your TV show.

Now, ef me sideways, you talk about legal ways of paying a monthly fee and downloading US shows next morning after premiere regardless of where you are in the world. In the meantime, there is at least, at the very least - 50 different levels of publishers, lawyers, distributors, channels, releasers, copyright, license and catalogue holders for both audio and visual content related to that show than needs to be fed between original network and it's premiere in UK seven months later. This is equivalent of you trying to buy milk for your cereal in the morning straight from cow. It ain't going to happen. Tens of thousands of mouths depend on breadcrumbs from this table. And they all feed off the same corpse. Of course they won't let go, and they will kick and scream and threaten and do stupid things like arrest 12 year old kids sharing Massive Attack track with their classmates through their laptop. Italian mafia doesn't have as many levels and ways to flog the same **** again and again as media world does.
 
Last edited:
[DOD]Asprilla;23522165 said:
This. I don't walk out of the supermarket without paying and then claim their model is broken yet people seem to think its ok with music.

Stealing music:

110413093211large.jpg


Copyright infringment:

artdownloadinggenericgi.jpg


Seriously, if people can't be bothered/are too dense to learn the difference, don't even bother arguing the point. :rolleyes:
 
the BBC iplayer allows offline watching..... shame others don't.

Apple shows series as they are broadcast and you can download and view them whenever you want (well the US site does).

I still think the cost is too high (30-50 USD for a series) and you can usually have older ones for 1/4 of the price on amazon.

However it is available.
 
Originally Posted by Johanna Blakley - Lessons From Fashion
...Now, those of you who are familiar with the logic behind copyright protection -- which is that without ownership, there is no incentive to innovate -- might be really surprised by both the critical success of the fashion industry and the economic success of this industry. What I'm going to argue today is that because there's no copyright protection in the fashion industry, fashion designers have actually been able to elevate utilitarian design, things to cover our naked bodies, into something that we consider art. Because there's no copyright protection in this industry, there's a very open and creative ecology of creativity.

Oh, I see, I suppose by economic success of the industry they are talking about the handful of top designers that siphon most of the cash, no?

You are aware, I'm sure, that there are countless cases of amateur local designers, just starting their career, and who get their designs copied by the bigger firms and they have no way to defend/protect themselves? By the time they go to court the fashion has already changed - and they got no legal budget to hire as good solicitors as a top firm.

Suggesting that the no-copyright attitude of the fashion industry is the path to the light is a joke. That's not saying that the copyright attitude of the software industry is the solution either.

anyway..reading the posts in every - and I mean every - software piracy and copyright infringment thread makes me think of the same thing, every time: This is the e-Generation, e as in entitlement.
 
Stealing music:

110413093211large.jpg


Copyright infringment:

artdownloadinggenericgi.jpg


Seriously, if people can't be bothered/are too dense to learn the difference, don't even bother arguing the point. :rolleyes:

So what is the difference?

I use my time, effort, resources, cost and skill to create something. It has value and I attach a price to it. Someone then comes along and takes it without paying.

You are saying I have no right to feel aggrieved?

What about the session musicians who won't go on the tour but contributed to the record?

What about the person who wrote the song? They get nothing from live performances.

I love how those who condone this theft blame 'the labels' but don't give a second thought to the artists of whom they are allegedly fans.
 
The end result is the same though :rolleyes:

Theft = taking
Copyright infringement = copying

One involves removing an item, the other involves duplicating an item. Is it really such a difficult concept to grasp?

[DOD]Asprilla;23522807 said:
So what is the difference?

See above.

While I don't agree that either of them are justifiable, arguing a point which is plain wrong simply shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Theft = taking
Copyright infringement = copying

One involves removing an item, the other involves duplicating an item. Is it really such a difficult concept to grasp?



See above.

While I don't agree that either of them are justifiable, arguing a point which is plain wrong simply shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

I meant more on a moral level than legislative level.
 
Back
Top Bottom