Poll: Benefit cap vote.

[Muffin`]

For example my Wife has various health issues that require her to see 4 different specialists and also cannot leave the house without me has been placed into the "support group" which means she i supposed to see a job adviser every 6 months to discuss her health plans for work but as she cannot leave the house the DWP phones her.

You can see the predicament we're in that you cannot just leave people alone until the end of time, nor should they be ignored for their own wellbeing. The issue was the lack of information on those who claimed IB, a form of assessment was needed to allow those who could work but just needed time or some help could be and those deemed too ill to work are left alone for a period of time.

 

['Harry]

I am really against means testing as mentioned before, it works against those who strive (damn the brainwashing media have just got me use one of those recently banded about words).

Some of the benefits people are proposing removing for the "richer" were rewarded to the population as things which brought together society reducing boundaries etc, again I say the same message they should not be taken away from those who are financially responsible.

I am ignoring those at this point who do not and will not get opportunites. I could quite easily buy a nice shiny S3 but I deem it poor value for money and am saving instead, there will be a lot more things like this as I go through life, I have seen it for years, those who spend all they earn and sometimes more, aren't saving for a pension etc. They will hit retirement and will be poor, so they should get benefits such as bus passes, winter fuel allowances etc and I shouldn't as I didn't spend every penny I earn't?
This is the big issue, the financially irresponsible are getting benefits by being irresponsible, just the same as the genuinely needy as they appear the same on the face of it. Means testing would only work if you consider what people have earn't over their lifetime and if they have clearly enjoyed the good life spending all the earn they damn well deserve a poor retirement.

Its far too easy to overexpose yourself and then cry about it and expect people to pick up the pieces. One of the biggest differences between middle earners here and the chinese.. Most UK will spend virtually all they earn on starbucks, going out, clothes, shiny phones, ipads, whatever.. where as the chinese will save a good percentage (normally well over 20%) before they consider spending ON LUXURIES.

The expectation of whats normal, whats acceptable etc has just got out of line.
I remember talking to my granddad 10-15 years ago. When he left the army after WW2 he went into the police, both him and my Nan worked yet they rented a bedsit when they got married, thats all they could afford. No house etc, rented a bedsit.
When their finances improved they managed to get their first rented house, money was literally so tight they had to save for anything, every week the wages had to be divvied up between a number of jars for utilities, food etc, if there was anything left it could go into savings to buy for example some furniture.
Our expectations are just so much higher now, partly because we have moved on but also it creates an unrealistic expectation of "the minimum I deserve". This IMO is whats slowly killing us the standards keep creeping up, so the costs follow. NHS is the same, as medical science moves on and gets ever more capable of treating ever more expensive to treat illnesses we have to find more money.

And the biggest issue with the whole welfare mess is its been caused by very few people tinkering and messing about with a system in order to appear more favourable in the eyes of the electorate. Both Labour and the cons are just as guilty as each other, they have both done it and will both do so given the opportunity. The massive extra benefits introduced over the term of the last labour government dragged significantly more people into receiving benefits. Thats despite the lowest paid (via minimum wage) receiving a much higher % wage rise over that period than those above the minimum wage (private and public)
Successive governments have failed to build enough housing, instead they have allowed tax payers money to be diverted into the housing market, helping to create the increased house prices and by the fact its a "mimimum standard of living" if the rents go up simply more tax payers money has to be funnelled to the landlords to pay the rent.
Again Labour just as guilty as the tories. There should be a detailed and coordinated house building programme that ensures we build enough houses, compulsory repurchase building land back from developers if they do not build on it (they own loads but they are sitting on it). Instead of passing more and more taxpayers money to the landlords they should have been building council houses, house prices would not have gone mad without demand, all housing became more squeezed as it was becoming more and more in demand due to supply constraints, reduced supply compared to demand = price rises.

Financially responsible? Most of the people I listed for example were born into money. Lords/peers etc are primarily well-to-do types that never wanted for anything at any stage of their life. It's also much much easier to be financially responsible if you have disposable income to start with. Many scrape buy with next to nothing once bills have been paid. You can't really deny hard-working, but poorly paid people a present/luxury once in a while surely? The only real incentive to work is to make a better life for yourself, if you work just to pay bills, what is the point?


So, why give people something if they have no use for it? That makes zero sense. £200 to someone on the breadline makes a massive difference. Equality is all well and good, but it shouldn't ever be placed above rational thinking.

You and I won't agree on such things though, because we'll of had very different experiences of the world. I grew up in abject poverty, was never any guarantee that food was available from one day to the next etc I've been at the bottom, anyone who wishes such things on another person needs to live such a life for a while. They'd soon change their tone.

 

[Irish_Tom]

I believe you would get the couple's allowance of £111.45 a week instead of £71 for each of you

Would that be each or a combined total? Is that only if you're married?

I posted what it cost me to live on JSA (many pages ago now)..was ignored. People would rather argue over silly little things then look at proper figures supplied by people who know what it's like to live on it.

Also £275 for a flat had to survive on less money renting @ £400pcm But, in the eyes of the have-it-alls, that is acceptable living.

It sounds impossible.

snip!

Ditto.

 

[interspaced]

It's a combined total and you do not have to be married just in a relationship and living together.

 

[Gilly]

It sounds impossible.

Before we got together our lass sometimes went a day or more without eating so that she could feed her son properly. She was claiming everything she was entitled to and was a single parent. They had nothing.

 

[Hitman_Leon]

Before we got together our lass sometimes went a day or more without eating so that she could feed her son properly. She was claiming everything she was entitled to and was a single parent. They had nothing.

I've been there and I've seen that; still do in some people I know who have lost jobs, its an all too real situation that makes me wonder where in hell the luxury life of benefit claimants myth comes from.

 

[Irish_Tom]

It's a combined total and you do not have to be married just in a relationship and living together.

So £111.45 instead of £142, makes it even worse than I thought!

Before we got together our lass sometimes went a day or more without eating so that she could feed her son properly. She was claiming everything she was entitled to and was a single parent. They had nothing.

This thread is very depressing.

 

[estebanrey]

I've been there and I've seen that; still do in some people I know who have lost jobs, its an all too real situation that makes me wonder where in hell the luxury life of benefit claimants myth comes from.

Maybe TV programmes like this...

 

[Hagar]

The idea of JSA benefits is a safety net so that no one is starving on the streets or can not afford some (basic) accommodation. You should not be planning to stay on JSA for a lengthy time and it should not provide a comfortable lifestyle

The benefit system was designed so that you paid in (tax and NI) while you were employed and took out (dole) when you were not. You stayed on it only as long as necessary and took any employment to get off it

The fact that all sorts of benefits have been tagged on over the years means that 30p in the £ of all government (taxpayers) income supports the benefit system directly.

Labours efforts at wealth redistribution over the last 10 years in power, distributed the benefit system way up the income scale using tax credits and distorted the whole scheme. This should definitely be restricted to 1% or frozen.

 

[V4NT0M]

I thought I'd do some research/calculations to see what life on JSA would be like:

I used the DirectGov Benefits advisor site to work out an estimate of what my girlfriend and I would get if we were both unemployed (but able to work), without children and living in a 1-bedroom flat:

• Housing Benefit – £72.46 per week
• Council Tax Benefit – £11.08 per week
• Jobseeker's Allowance (Contribution based) – £71.00 per week
• Jobseeker's Allowance (Contribution based) for your partner – £71.00 per week

Total: £225.54 per week
That's an annual 'net salary' of £10,825 for two people or the equivalent of one of us working 37.5 hours a week for minimum wage.

The cheapest 1-bed flat I could find from a quick search was £275 a month (so £15 a month left over from the above benefits).
The cheapest council tax band for Portsmouth is 18.85 a week (so assuming our 1-bed flat falls into this band we would have to find £7.77 a month from the above)
After housing, between us, we'd have £150 a month to pay for food and utilities.

Now I think we're pretty frugal with our groceries (we only really buy value branded stuff) and we end up paying about £30 a week.
That leaves £30 a month left for the utilities, not to mention all of the other costs of living. Even if we reduced our weekly shop it wouldn't make a huge difference.

I know you could get additional benefits for children (but then you have to support them) and we could try getting disability allowance or similar, but it doesn't sound like the life of Riley that it's made out to be.

When you consider the above in relation to the cap, 3% in line with inflation would give us an extra £324.75 which sounds like a lot — in fact it's more than someone on the average salary of £26,500 with a 1% rise.

However, to someone on the breadline trying to keep up with inflation that £325 is massive. To someone on an average wage it's not insignificant, but it wouldn't really affect your day-to-day life.

I am confus.

• Housing Benefit – £72.46 per week
• Council Tax Benefit – £11.08 per week
• Jobseeker's Allowance (Contribution based) – £71.00 per week
• Jobseeker's Allowance (Contribution based) for your partner – £71.00 per
  Total: £225.54 per week

• 
  
  *4 = £902.16 Per month.
  
  

  The cheapest 1-bed flat I could find from a quick search was £275 a month (so £15 a month left over from the above benefits).
  The cheapest council tax band for Portsmouth is 18.85 a week (so assuming our 1-bed flat falls into this band we would have to find £7.77 a month from the above)
  After housing, between us, we'd have £150 a month to pay for food and utilities.

  £275 + £74.5 = £349.50
  
  £902.16 - £349.50 = £552.66
  
  ??
  

 

[Amleto]

I am confus.

*4 = £902.16 Per month.

£275 + £74.5 = £349.50

£902.16 - £349.50 = £552.66

??

SHHH. Don't mention the metaphorical elephant

p.s. should be more like week*4.3 = month

 

[Hatter The Mad]

£225.54 per week

I am confus.

*4 = £902.16 Per month.
[/COLOR]

Should be (225.54*52)/12 = £977.34 per month

 

[dottty27]

Me & the Mrs had to go on a joint jsa claim 3 years ago both lost our job's for 3/4 month's we found it hard to live off it only due to her mum helping us out could we do it
Lucky for us my partner got a job in a care home ( i did the stay at home look after son )
now hes gearing up to go to full time school and i'm spamming my cv to every & any job i can

Yet i see on facebook daily single mum's & couples buying 3d 50inch tv's ( crates of wine ) and drug's yet are all ment to be on JSA

all live in house's have latest phone's ( one just bought her kid an ipad )

 

[diamount]

Me & the Mrs had to go on a joint jsa claim 3 years ago both lost our job's for 3/4 month's we found it hard to live off it only due to her mum helping us out could we do it
Lucky for us my partner got a job in a care home ( i did the stay at home look after son )
now hes gearing up to go to full time school and i'm spamming my cv to every & any job i can

Yet i see on facebook daily single mum's & couples buying 3d 50inch tv's ( crates of wine ) and drug's yet are all ment to be on JSA

all live in house's have latest phone's ( one just bought her kid an ipad )

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All of that stuff can be easily got on credit, same goes for new phones with a slight increase in monthly mobile contract payments. But if they are posting publicly about buying illegal drugs then grass them up.

 

[estebanrey]

Should be (225.54*52)/12 = £977.34 per month

Well if you want to be super accurate it should be....

(225.54 * (365.25 / 7)) / 12 = £980.70 per month

*Before anyone asks, it's 365.25 because leap years means there are on average 365.25 days a year, told you I was being super accurate

 

[Amleto]

Me & the Mrs had to go on a joint jsa claim 3 years ago both lost our job's for 3/4 month's we found it hard to live off it only due to her mum helping us out could we do it
Lucky for us my partner got a job in a care home ( i did the stay at home look after son )
now hes gearing up to go to full time school and i'm spamming my cv to every & any job i can

Yet i see on facebook daily single mum's & couples buying 3d 50inch tv's ( crates of wine ) and drug's yet are all ment to be on JSA

all live in house's have latest phone's ( one just bought her kid an ipad )

at least you found all the grocers' apostrophes.

 

[diamount]

at least you found all the butchers' apostrophes.

I think when critiquing someones grammar - you'd at least set an example and capitalize.

 

[estebanrey]

I think when critiquing someones grammar - you'd at least set an example and capitalize.

Someone's

 

[diamount]

Someone's

Thanks...?

 

[Amleto]

Someone's

Hey, he's criticizing the critique-er, not critiquing the critique-er!