Supplements the debate/discussion thread

I RTM'ed the fact that the ref codes were deleted - we were always allowed. As long as we don't take the **** and post it in our sigs etc... it should be ok.
 
Been looking for a stim-free pre workout but keep seeing Craze on offer everywhere. After all the bad press that followed Craze with it's amphetamine callouts i cant help but think its just safer to go for stim-free. Plus, i train at night during the week and cant stay up for hours after a session before sleeping. Are stim-free pwo's even worth it in the long run? Or do i just get Craze for weekend training..
 
Yeah same stuff.

Just made an order with TPW.

Can't remember whos referral I used as it was registered when I first made an account. Quite possibly FF?
 
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icecold said:
What's even in a stim free pre work out?

Also, you'll need to remove the MP referrer code.
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Shows how long ive been lurking and not posting ha. Stim free is essentially caffeine free. They focus more on pump and endurance with citrulline, creatine, arginine, BCAAs and the like. Oddly more expensive than the caffeine-included versions..
 
I'm planning to take this pre-workout.

5g Leucine
2g Taurine
2.5g Beta Alanine
5g Coconut Oil
5g Creatine
 
ergonomics said:
Been looking for a stim-free pre workout but keep seeing Craze on offer everywhere. After all the bad press that followed Craze with it's amphetamine callouts i cant help but think its just safer to go for stim-free. Plus, i train at night during the week and cant stay up for hours after a session before sleeping. Are stim-free pwo's even worth it in the long run? Or do i just get Craze for weekend training..
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THere are quite a few options to make your own caffeine free pre-workout:

Acetyl-L-Carnitine - helps focus during training and keeping lean
Acetyl-L-Tyrosine - Very good nootropic
Beta Alanine - Lactic acid buffer, so good for cardio or high reps, useless for strength training
Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate (or Ethyl Esther) - NO booster, pump product
Citrulline Malate - Similar to Beta Alanine but better and more expensive
L Ornithine Alpha Ketoglutarate - Performance booster
Taurine - Many uses but the main one I find is keeping you hydrated

The last one Ornithine is THE single most powerfull supplement I have ever taken. Nothing has ever given me a strength boost like that stuff! I can only describe it as having Ronnie Coleman as an over zealous spotter :D Unbelieveable when it kicks in but it's a weird supplement. It only seems to work for pressing movements and does nothing for pulling movement... very hard to explain unless you have tried it. At one point I was Incline DB Pressing 65kg DB's on my own without a spotter using this. It's expensive though and you need to take high doses.

Tyrosine is superb, everyone should take this. I use it at work when I've got a lot to do, it's the best single supplement for focus, better than caffeine. The Acetyl version is 3 or 4 times more easily absorbed so you don't need much.

ALCAR is imho very good but you need to take it daily for months to see the true effects. Still good for helping with focus, especially when cutting. I take 1.5g every morning on empty stomach while on IF and you can really feel the effects then, especially if you take too much lol!

Arginine works as a pump product but I think these actually take away from performance rather than enhance it. The muscle fills with blood to the point I can't feel the muscle and can't perform the rep properly, a bit like a beginner would feel. Also I think the pump puts pressure on internal tendons, ligaments, nerves, etc. I have no proof of this, just my personal experience. I bought 1kg of Arginine Ethyl Esther ages ago so I just use it PWO, I figure it might help improve blood flow of nutrients to the muscles....?

All the above do work. Another one worth considering is chocamine but I suppose it's still a stimulant? I just eat 15g of Green & Blacks 85% chocolate an hour before gym :)
 
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Quite a few ideas on how to to take beta alanine. Anyone looked into this?

MP says:
Loading phase (days 1-5): Consume 1.5g (half of a small MP Plastic Scoop) 4 times daily, spaced evenly throughout the day. Best taken with water or fruit juice in-between meals.

Maintenance phase (days 6-35): Consume 1.5g (half of a small MP Plastic Scoop) 2 times daily, spaced evenly throughout the day. Best taken with water or fruit juice in-between meals.

Upon completion of this period take a 2 week break before starting your next Beta Alanine period .

TPW says:
On workout days:
Take 4g-5g daily, divided between 1-2 servings. Take 2g-2.5g approx 20 minutes before exercise and 2g-2.5g immediately after exercise

On non workout days:
Take 4g-5g ideally with food
 
I agree about OAKG - but it also tastes foul! You do have to take a fair amount of it in my experience, but at the time I was 220lbs or so.

ALCAR is good - but my days of lots of supps are done - I just don't have the interest, time or money for it anymore! :o
 
LiE said:
Quite a few ideas on how to to take beta alanine. Anyone looked into this?

MP says:
Loading phase (days 1-5): Consume 1.5g (half of a small MP Plastic Scoop) 4 times daily, spaced evenly throughout the day. Best taken with water or fruit juice in-between meals.

Maintenance phase (days 6-35): Consume 1.5g (half of a small MP Plastic Scoop) 2 times daily, spaced evenly throughout the day. Best taken with water or fruit juice in-between meals.

Upon completion of this period take a 2 week break before starting your next Beta Alanine period .

TPW says:
On workout days:
Take 4g-5g daily, divided between 1-2 servings. Take 2g-2.5g approx 20 minutes before exercise and 2g-2.5g immediately after exercise

On non workout days:
Take 4g-5g ideally with food
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I've seen it suggested like this:

Take 1.5g four times daily for 6 weeks, then reduce to; two 1.5g servings daily.
 
Research would indicate 4.5g/day is good,spread across 4/5 servings to avoid parasthesia.

To contradict Chong (apologies), research does suggest better power output with beta alanine vs. control groups. However, we're not talking PED-style, but statistically significant, nonetheless.
 
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