I love these and I'm pretty sure I musy have one

[FnG]magnolia;23607532 said:
The 3.0R is not 'properly quick' and isn't designed to be so. The engine is certainly capable and you won't struggle to overtake but they are definitely more laid back than the GTB variant which is happier to be a bit of a loon. Depending on year and model (and country variant thereof) the GTB shaves some time off that 0-60 number (which is hilariously redundant anyway but hey ho) but is still hampered by the AWD taking a number of horses off the 280bhp they produce.
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Much as I agree that 0-60 specs are borderline irrelevant, surely that's the party piece of the 4WD drive train? Compare it to the Impreza, even just the WRX, and it appears substansially slower.

It's clearly my ignorance of the brand, but given the R / Spec B badging, I'd assumed that this was one of the quicker models... The sort of Q car to the masses, but petrolheads know it's a bit special

If you compare it to the 3.0 in the E46/E39, I'd expected the engine to be more powerful given that the model linked was a 2006 (3 years newer than the E39), and given that it's 4WD, I'd expected initial performance to be better than the ~6 second to 60 you'd get out of the E46/E39, albeit at the expense of top end speed due to extra power losses.

I get the appeal of the Galant VR-4 (though saying that, I'm now wondering if I've over-estimated that too), but I just don't see why this car is remarkable, a; at all; and b; to justify the R / Spec B badging...
 
Kingy said:
Much as I agree that 0-60 specs are borderline irrelevant, surely that's the party piece of the 4WD drive train? Compare it to the Impreza, even just the WRX, and it appears substansially slower.
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All models feature AWD. The Legacy was designed as an Impreza with a big boot and the 3.0R is no less limp than the WRX which itself is a shadow of the STI. I'd say both the 3.0R and the WRX are slightly engaging yet terribly dull cars.

It's clearly my ignorance of the brand, but given the R / Spec B badging,
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The R does not carry over from the Impreza branding and the Spec B often (country dependant again) refers to the Bilstein gear and a few other, lesser, bits and bobs.

I'd assumed that this was one of the quicker models... The sort of Q car to the masses, but petrolheads know it's a bit special
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I think it was actually developed for the US market but this might be nonsense I'm misremembering from the Subaru forum I frequent. The GTB (the picture I included above is my GTB, not a 3.0R, for clarity) was often called a sleeper when first launched. There simply were not many affordable wagons around at that time which had AWD and 280 bhp. Before moving to NZ I saw exactly none of them on the road in the UK but I imagine they're still fairly rare.

If you compare it to the 3.0 in the E46/E39, I'd expected the engine to be more powerful given that the model linked was a 2006 (3 years newer than the E39), and given that it's 4WD, I'd expected initial performance to be better than the ~6 second to 60 you'd get out of the E46/E39, albeit at the expense of top end speed due to extra power losses.
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I know nothing about BMWs, sorry.

I get the appeal of the Galant VR-4 (though saying that, I'm now wondering if I've over-estimated that too),
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That would be a mistake. The VR-4 is a quick and capable car by most standards and will almost always mop up a GTB on a race track. On a road? Nothing in it and they have a smaller, less easy to access boot if you care about that sort of thing.

but I just don't see why this car is remarkable, a; at all; and b; to justify the R / Spec B badging...
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It's not remarkable. In fact it was sold as an unremarkable, sedate car. The R simply denotes that it's had a bit of livening up from the even more laidback non R car.

Let's be clear : the 3.0R gets you from A to B and it does so nicely and effortlessly. The GTB gets you there with a smile on your face and a look of surprise on the face of the guy who thought you drove a boring estate.
 
Cheers, an interesting read... :)

Yours looks like it has a flat loading bay (ie no boot lip), is that what you mean about the VR-4 having a less easy access boot?

What year is your GTB? It looks a different generation than the 3.0R that Oracle linked to? Or is that a Kiwi specific model?

Is yours a manual or auto? What's the performance like (0-60, 0-100, MPG etc)
 
Kingy said:
Much as I agree that 0-60 specs are borderline irrelevant, surely that's the party piece of the 4WD drive train? Compare it to the Impreza, even just the WRX, and it appears substansially slower.
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The Legacy is AWD not for performance, but becuase it is a Subaru. Before rally-fame, Subaru was known for one thing - all-weather cars for farming folk. The Legacy is AWD so it's all-weather and can easily handle muddy, filthy roads etc not so that it can rip the tarmac up as it bolts to 60 in a quick flash.

It's clearly my ignorance of the brand, but given the R / Spec B badging, I'd assumed that this was one of the quicker models... The sort of Q car to the masses, but petrolheads know it's a bit special
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It is one of the quicker models, but it's not a performance orientated model line. There are rarer, more powerful import turbo models but the 3 litre is about smooth, dependable, AWD power delivery.

If you compare it to the 3.0 in the E46/E39, I'd expected the engine to be more powerful given that the model linked was a 2006 (3 years newer than the E39), and given that it's 4WD, I'd expected initial performance to be better than the ~6 second to 60 you'd get out of the E46/E39, albeit at the expense of top end speed due to extra power losses.
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It has similar power to an M54 powered BMW yet it has additional weight courtesy it's 4wd. It's also probably not geared for 0-60, either.

I think you've got totally the wrong idea of what this car is about.

As has Lucero, I'd imagine, given he seems to think it's totally tunable and has ignored suggestions it's not.
 
The 3.0 isn't that tunable from what I've seen, certainly not with parts readily available in the UK - a remap and cat back exhaust system is about all I ever found when I was looking at buying one, without having to look at importing parts from the US or Japan, or buy 'no name' items.

Other performance aftermarket parts seem thin on the ground too - try getting uprated brake discs or pads and you'll see what I mean.

Its fundamentally a good car and I like them a lot but its nowhere near as easy to tune as most fast Subarus (due to being NA and relatively scarce). My dad had a 2.0R estate and it was great, nothing broke on it for four years, interior was as nice as I've ever been in for a Jap car this side of a Lexus, build quality took a step back with the next generation of Subaru after this IMHO!

I have even read that as standard most don't make the claimed 241bhp, the map for UK spec cars/fuel is somewhat less than optimal...tuning brings them up a bit but don't expect it to improve much.
 
The 3.0R is not the car to buy if you want to do any meaninful tuning. Buy a JDM GTB if you can find one - which are also not overly tunable but are more powerful out of the factory - or buy an Impreza and tune it until your heart's content.

Kingy, mine is an older JDM model, 2002. I don't know the 0-60 time but would guess it's in the 6's. I get about 23mpg with mixed driving and substantially less if the loud pedal gets a lot of use.

Finally, I agree with all of Fox's points, particularly that Lucero doesn't understand what the 3.0R is all about. I think he's looking at the wrong car or at least the wrong model.
 
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the 3.0 does have a lovely sound to it when on song, a bit like other well known flat six engines! They're not slow, but as said not a quick car, feels very comfortable though. I got out of one of these and into a mid range same age bmw 3 series and it felt less comfortable. If you like different, go for it, as already said better (and far cheaper) than a similar spec audi est.
 
[TW]Fox;23612163 said:
As has Lucero, I'd imagine, given he seems to think it's totally tunable and has ignored suggestions it's not.
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Sorry, what? I ignored those suggestions because I was never talking about buying a GTB so tuning was never on my list of must buy reasons. I'm under no illusions as to what this car is capable of and what is was designed for, which is exactly why I want one. It makes far more sense (for me) than an F11 which means I can get an F10 instead :) As far as my tuning comment, I was referring to the GTB for tuneability but wasn't considering a GTB for my own needs.
 
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Rubbish - you said:

They aren't going to set the world on fire in terms of performance unless tuned, but my word, they tune well.
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It was clear as day that you were referring to the example in your OP (Especially as a stock GTB *is* pretty quick, your quote obviously referred to the 3.0), not some random other example that nobody had yet mentioned :p
 
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Lucero said:
As far as my tuning comment, I was referring to the GTB for tuneability but wasn't considering a GTB for my own needs.
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You quite clearly got confused between the 3.0 n/a and the turbo - you did 5 minutes google research and then came on here making out you knew all about them. We've been here before haven't we?
 
No confusion at all, my reference to the tuning was for the overall Legacy range not my OP (I used the word "They" (as in Legacy) rather than "this one" (specific). I never said I knew everything about them. I suggest you re-read the op where I ask:
Anyone own(ed) one with examples / watch out for, etc?
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I have no interest in tuning it, if I did, I'd be buying an Impreza wagon. Having looked at these cars on and off for at least a couple of years, they always impress me and I've done a fair bit more than 5 minutes of googling. It's been closer to 10.....:p
 
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Lucero said:
No confusion at all, my reference to the tuning was for the overall Legacy range not my OP (I used the word "They" (as in Legacy) rather than "this one" (specific). I never said I knew everything about them.
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None of the Legacy variants tune well. None of them. Even the GTB STI (which you almost certainly can't buy in the UK) can't be tuned in any way worth talking about. You buy them for what they are and not because you can tune them easily.

I have no interest in tuning it, if I did, I'd be buying an Impreza wagon. Having looked at these cars on and off for at least a couple of years, they always impress me and I've done a fair bit more than 5 minutes of googling. It's been closer to 10.....:p
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The WRX wagon is no more performance orientated or tuneable than the 3.0R you linked in your first post. The STI version falls outside your budget and is again probably very rare to source in the UK.

I'd extend your research to something a bit longer than 5 or 10 minutes :D
 
If 12 minutes seems right to you then go for it but I'd buy a different car if I were you because I don't think any of the Legacy range fits your apparent needs.
 
[FnG]magnolia;23615232 said:
If 12 minutes seems right to you then go for it but I'd buy a different car if I were you because I don't think any of the Legacy range fits your apparent needs.
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Does it take longer than 12 minutes to decide on a relatively capable estate car that you won't care about and can throw a dog and all your luggage into. No, probably not :D
 
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