David Cameron's speech on Europe

elmarko1234 said:
No, I dislike that also (I'd prefer a technocracy) - but at least the government (on average) are a little more informed than Joe public.

Besides, a functional democracy is reliant on having an intelligent, informed & engaged population.
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Ok, so by that logic the people who voted to JOIN originally were flawed and should never have been able to make the decision to join.

I actually agree partly on the Technocracy, but with modern IT its a lot easier to actually guage the actual populations views on things and we can move away from just a few with real power calling the shots.
The problem with a technocracy is that in the real world the issues with abuse of power could be even worse than the current system.
 
Theophany said:
What the actual **** are you on about?

If the Irish had voted yes first time round they would have accepted the terms, why would they then try to renegotiate them? Either you accept or you don't, if you don't try and get a better deal.
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With each post of his I see in this thread, my face gradually becomes a larger/more dismayed vision of total and utter incredulity.

"Excuse me, would you like this? I can sell it to you for £500."
"NO!"
"Oh, okay... well, how about £25?"
"I SAID NO THE FIRST TIME WHAT ARE YOU PLAYING AT RABBLE RABBLE!"
 
platypus said:
Probably because whilst it does legislate workers rights, it doesn't actually "fight for the little guy". It's all well and good having a court to go to but in practice it takes months if not years, and does little to stop employers trampling all over workers rights. I dislike the way unions often handle themselves but they do far more for workers on a day to day basis than a court in Brussels.
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I think what your missing is what the unions historically did and what they do now, most of what comes out of the EU is the sorts of things trade unions historically fought for and do not now since they do not need to.

I actually agree with the need for unions, but IMO they should be standing up for workers rights and thats it, ensuring that the law is applied and fairly.
 
Pestilence said:
"Excuse me, would you like this? I can sell it to you for £500."
"NO!"
"Oh, okay... well, how about £25?"
"I SAID NO THE FIRST TIME WHAT ARE YOU PLAYING AT RABBLE RABBLE!"
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Oh so it was'nt worth £500 in the first place..you're a con artist
 
I think Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales would really suffer if we left the EU as the UK Govt. only cares about the UK that's within the M25, anyone living outside the M25 can tell you that.
 
topshot said:
As opposed to what? Being told what to do by Europe?

The sooner we get a vote on getting out the better.
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I think all this post does is sum my point up quite nicely.

But as an aside, which aspects of your day to day life are now worse as a direct result of apparently 'being told what to do by Europe'? And which parts are better?

For me personally there numerous arguments in favour of the EU and numerous considerable benefits of its membership. But there are also numerous arguments against the EU and many aspects of membership which disadvantage us. As a result I honestly don't know, currently, which way I'd vote.

Many of those who know 100% which way they'd vote tend to have 'arguements' that don't stand up to scrutiny.
 
A few years back, I was in Las Vegas and attended an event with a "champagne reception". I got there to find that they were serving Californian sparkling white wine instead of champagne. I was appalled.

And so I've been pro-EU ever since. Stuff like that is illegal in Britain thanks to the EU. :p
 
mmj_uk said:
This is just Conservative panic at the increasing support for UKIP, it's only just over a year ago that Cameron was telling his party to vote against it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...s-ordered-to-vote-against-EU-referendum.html#

They promised us a referendum during this term and went back on it, now they're dangling the same carrot again, anyone who still believes him needs shooting.
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I thought he 'promised' a referendum if the Lisbon Treaty wasn't ratified before the 2010 GE, but it was and therefore sealed.

How's the press in Belgium reporting this? Is it a major story at all or is it being dismissed as a stunt?

Edit... you're not mjt... wrong person.
 
Fox talks a lot of sense.

You can argue that we'd be better or worse off staying in the EU as things stand now, both sides would no doubt have valid points.

However, to say 'we must leave' or 'we must stay in' without any idea of the results of these negotiations would be premature.
 
The reason Cameron cant start to negotiate is because of Cleggers and co, as it will need to be pass within Parliament, and has Cleggers is a Johnny Foreigner himself he will not allow this to happen.
 
Irish_Tom said:
Fox talks a lot of sense.

You can argue that we'd be better or worse off staying in the EU as things stand now, both sides would no doubt have valid points.

However, to say 'we must leave' or 'we must stay in' without any idea of the results of these negotiations would be premature.
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That presumes that the rest of the EU is even interested in having negotiations on this subject.
 
eatcustard said:
The reason Cameron cant start to negotiate is because of Cleggers and co, as it will need to be pass within Parliament, and has Cleggers is a Johnny Foreigner himself he will not allow this to happen.
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This is how the uneducated masses think.
 
Pestilence said:
With each post of his I see in this thread, my face gradually becomes a larger/more dismayed vision of total and utter incredulity.

"Excuse me, would you like this? I can sell it to you for £500."
"NO!"
"Oh, okay... well, how about £25?"
"I SAID NO THE FIRST TIME WHAT ARE YOU PLAYING AT RABBLE RABBLE!"
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So you were trying to sell a lie in the first place.

I see where your style of politics comes from. Probably inferior goods coming from you. NO thanks
 
[TW]Fox;23615999 said:
For me personally there numerous arguments in favour of the EU and numerous considerable benefits of its membership. But there are also numerous arguments against the EU and many aspects of membership which disadvantage us. As a result I honestly don't know, currently, which way I'd vote.

Many of those who know 100% which way they'd vote tend to have 'arguements' that don't stand up to scrutiny.
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Absolutely.

I would add to your comments at the end, "or they are ill/un-informed".

This is just like the scottish independance vote, its far from black and white.

These votes really should have a "best before date" joining or leaving the Eu should not be a politial issue, we should have a vote at regular intervals if we as a population are happy with the way its going, if clearly the majority are, fine we stay and carry on, if clearly the majority are not then we should start repatriating. If every 10 years we voted we would allow some ebb and sway as our fortunes changed as a nation and the Eu potentially went way off course what we thought we were getting the last time we voted.
 
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