David Cameron's speech on Europe

[EyepodI]

First Europe and then the World mwhahaha

German Policy document 2012
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/cae...ile/169951/Gestaltungsmaechtekonzept engl.pdf

The German Government seeks to promote
rule-based multilateral global governance. Global
governance has become a crucial field of
foreign and security policy and diplomacy
in general....

Germany acts with and through Europe
Germany feeds its ideas on global issues into
European policy actively and consistently

Herman Van Rompuy (President of the European Council)

By working together, the EU and Russia can make a decisive contribution to global governance and regional conflict resolution, to global economic governance in the G 8 and G20, and to a broad range of international and regional issues.

Address by EU President Jacques Delors to The Royal Institute of International Affairs - LONDON, 7 SEPTEMBER 1992 : THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY AND THE NEW WORLD ORDER

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-92-81_en.htm?locale=en

[globalization, new world order waffle.....]
...This is a new departure which is worth thinking about
for the future, and it raises a new question: where do the rights and
duties of "interference" start and finish? The Community is perhaps in a
better position than others to give an unbiased answer to this question.
The conclusion, Your Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen, is that the
Community's contribution to a new world order is, like the Community
itself, something original: a method which will serve as a reference, a
body whose presence will be felt.

Hello collectivism

 

[bam0]

They would rather negotiate then lose the UK completely, we pay in too much money, are too large a trade partner and have too much international influence for them to not suffer through out departure.

If southern Europe wasn't turning in on itself then we would have a more difficult time getting anywhere, as is the UK is one of the largest financial and trade hubs in the world and not something easy to lose. There are also other matters such as security and intelligence where the EU would like to keep access to our resources, the EU has very little political and military might, areas where we (are / potentially) play large roles. If the UK did leave then it would be a massive blow to international confidence in the EU and may produce a lot of ripples.

We negotiate better terms, they keep the club together and everyone wins.

50% of British exports go to Europe, if the UK was no longer competitive by having tariff free access to those markets I'm sure others would gladly fill the gaps.
As for finance, that's an incredibly flighty thing to rely one. All it would take is for the EU to require that euro transactions are conducted in the eurozone (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/736bd72a-3c9a-11e2-a6b2-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2IoZ45MEw) and Paris/Frankfurt would suddenly become very attractive places for the finance companies to move to.

Security and Intelligence, how much do you actually know about other countries? It's natural that the UK media focus on the UK's involvement and capabilities only, that may have coloured your impressions somewhat.

As for it being a massive blow to the EU, I think the UK would be far more affected by leaving than the EU would.

 

[NXZT]

Of all things you can out to a referendum good luck on this one....it's complex, most of the people have limited understanding about implications and what they are actually voting for (don't even mention the role of the press in influencing this view) ...the whole decision will be based on peoples emotion and not on facts or even rational, balanced views.

What are the outcomes?

• Cameron can get his demands through and remains in the EU but without getting involved in any important or relevant projects

• Cameron can get his demands through and the public still votes against the UK remaining in the EU

• Cameron can't get his demands through

Does the outcome really matter? The UK was already out of the EU for some time (Schengen, Euro, Fiscal pact, Agreement on European bank) so what's the fuss about if you "are in" and watch the game from the sideline or you are completely out?
(or can you come up with any pro-European project the UK was pushing or leading?)

Good luck on your Island if this goes ahead, as we say "Travellers shouldn't be stopped".

 

[v0n]

As numerous threads proven, 99% of eurosceptics are either misinformed, xenophobic or both. Every time we have discussions on EU and you ask people for specifics, what they specifically don't like about what EU offers them or what policies specifically damaged their lives to the point of becoming separatists, the discussion always degrades to either tinfoil hat global federal new world order conspiracy or anecdotes about European court rulings (which have nothing to do with EU) or how Romanians/Poles/Bulgarians/Whathaveyous came to sleep ten-a-room and work for pound an hour.

 

[mmj_uk]

If the British people are making a mistake by voting to leave the EU then on our head be it, democracy is about being given the choice to shape our own futures and not be dictated to.

Not that I believe Cameron will give us a vote he's simply using the threat of leaving to try to look tough and get re-election, when the EU rightly tell him to **** off (because we signed up to the treaty) he'll probably turn around in 2017 and tell us that there will be no referendum because nothing has changed... and we'll be a further 4 years in the quagmire.

 

[elmarko]

the discussion always degrades to either tinfoil hat global federal new world order conspiracy or anecdotes about European court rulings (which have nothing to do with EU) or how Romanians/Poles/Bulgarians/Whathaveyous came to sleep ten-a-room and work for pound an hour.

Lol, so true.

 

[Hagar]

I voted us to go in in 1974 and would do the same now for a common market. Needs limiting to trade though IMO, currency, euro ministries etc. no thanks. Human rights I do not have an issue with but continent wide civil service and lawmaking I generally do.

 

[G J]

So people are worried about the mass un-informed about making a vote on the EU but some people are more then willing to hand over power to the EU who also make mass un-informed decisions.

Also why is the US intrested in the whole EU getting together, that last thing they would want is the euro becoming the next dollar.

 

[Tom_ed1987]

I voted us to go in in 1974 and would do the same now for a common market. Needs limiting to trade though IMO, currency, euro ministries etc. no thanks. Human rights I do not have an issue with but continent wide civil service and lawmaking I generally do.

It won't be though - the response from various EU officials following this speech makes it clear that renegotiation won't happen. It's either full political and economic integration into that hateful undemocratic model or we will be out.
I thought the speech itself was good - Cameran has gone up slightly in my estimations. I can't help but feel it is just to temporarily put the boot to UKIP though.

 

[The Funktopus]

This "in-out" referendum raises profound questions, such as whether we should "shake it all about" and when we should actually "do the hokey-cokey".

 

[Martini1991]

They voted "NO" - NO means NO we don't want it. NO need for a second vote - we said NO....Unless No means Yes to you?

Then logic would dictate they'd say no a second time.
But they didn't.

That's a negation, new terms which are agreeable.

 

[EyepodI]

Lolocaust.

[sarcasm] Yes, because global governance = NWO [/sarcasm]

Not mentioned on Wikipedia / BBC news so obviously just conspiracy garbage

Anyway, quoting our fine euro president friend Mr Delores

Your Excellencies,
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I would not presume to offer such an illustrious audience as this the
last word on the new world order of which President Bush spoke in
September 1990 when the Gulf Crisis was building up. Some have spoken of
the end of history, as though the new world order was already in place;
others think this is an illusion and prefer to speak of the new world
disorder. Both camps fail to recognize that devising a new system of
international relations will take a long time, especially after a forty-
year ice age.

 

[MrMoonX]

yep let the retarded daily fail and sun readers decide on coming out of something that has basically kept our tin pot little economy afloat for decades

 

[Theophany]

yep let the retarded daily fail and sun readers decide on coming out of something that has basically kept our tin pot little economy afloat for decades

See, that's an equally asinine comment.

Also why is the US intrested in the whole EU getting together, that last thing they would want is the euro becoming the next dollar.

There has been a trend of middle eastern, oil producing countries that are leaning toward using the Euro as their main export currency. Iraq was doing, until the US administration muscled in. Iran is doing and is planning to set up a Euro denominated oil exchange. Couple with that the fact that China is sitting on enough US greenback to totally destabilise the currency and you can understand there is some twitchiness around it.

e: This shows the decline of the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency, quite interesting. I'm actually far more nervous about the Euro than the Dollar...

 

[Tom_ed1987]

yep let the retarded daily fail and sun readers decide on coming out of something that has basically kept our tin pot little economy afloat for decades

Detail please.

 

[RDM]

As numerous threads proven, 99% of eurosceptics are either misinformed, xenophobic or both. Every time we have discussions on EU and you ask people for specifics, what they specifically don't like about what EU offers them or what policies specifically damaged their lives to the point of becoming separatists, the discussion always degrades to either tinfoil hat global federal new world order conspiracy or anecdotes about European court rulings (which have nothing to do with EU) or how Romanians/Poles/Bulgarians/Whathaveyous came to sleep ten-a-room and work for pound an hour.

Some disadvantages would be;

Cost. The EU costs Britain a fair amount. This may or may not be offset by trade arrangements but it is possible we could have similar trade agreements outside of the EU.

Inefficiencies. The two major ones that spring to mind are the retarded two parliament rubbish and the CAP. The CAP is especially painful as it increases food costs whilst at the same time messing over the third world.

The impact of the Euro crisis has had a significant impact. Even outside of the Eurozone.

Net migration. Whilst good for business it has had a suppressing effect on low wage jobs whilst increasing pressure on public services and housing.

I'm not even euro sceptic and can see disadvantages of EU membership. That's not even addressing more ephemeral issues such as democratic deficit and sovereignty.

 

[Naffa]

I would much prefer it if this conversation were taking place in five years time, but as it stands, I can't argue that a referendum should be denied, despite my position. I am all in favour of the UK remaining in the European Union and oppose the prime minister's crackpot desire for a strong single market, but with different rules for the UK.

I support a referendum (though, I think the timing is crap), but I hope that it will take place with the prime minister having failed to renegotiate a new settlement. I will vote to remain in the EU.

 

[Jonners]

If you believe a word DC says and vote for him in 2015, you are a fool! There will be no EU referendum, one because he hasn't got the backbone, two because he won't get back in to any power.

All hot air!

 

[Tute]

It won't swing my vote. Either:

a) He will deny saying it and there will be no referendum.
b) The vote will be YES.
c) The vote will be NO, and will be ignored, or put to us again and again until we say YES.

 

[Westyfield2]

Good idea. In a referendum today I would vote "out". But if we have a looser, more-trade based relationship (rules on working hours, crime, environment and social policy returned to Westminster) after renegotiations I would vote "in" as the trade links are important.

The majority of votes cast will be based on little if any actual research and mostly kneejerk and uninformed opinion often gathered from sections of the press. I find it genuinely scary that the future of our country may be decided in this way.

Isn't that just the same as anything where you're asking the public to vote though? Most of the public would just vote for a vegetable if it was wearing their favourite colour rosette.