Help regarding a debt collector

shoes

shoes

shoes

Soldato
Joined
27 Jul 2011
Posts
3,534
Location
Staffordshire
I received a letter yesterday from a company called MakenzieHall in Ayrshire asking a Mr <My Name> to contact them regarding a personal matter and that they believe I reside at <my address>.

I have never heard of this company and was a littler perplexed to find they were a debt collection agency when googling them. Their letter head made no suggestion whatsoever of what it is they do.

I rang them back this morning to find out what was going on and to my shock they informed me that I owe Carphone Warehouse over £650. Bearing in mind I have had an Orange contract for nearly eight years (March 2013 will be the end of the eighth year) I had no idea what he was talking about.

When I was 18, in 2004, I took out a contract with O2 from the Carphone warehouse. At the end of the contract I cancelled went to Orange, as they were offering a very good deal at the time. At the end of the CPW contract I was not in credit or debit with CPW, I was paid up and the contract was terminated.

Apparently not. This debt collector has the contract as 'involuntarily terminated' although he has no date for when this occurred. They also have no information as to how such a biblical amount of money has been accrued from a £25/month mobile phone contract.

At the time of switching to Orange I lived with my parents and both mum and my step dad cannot recall any letters from CPW or O2 regarding this matter. They still live at this address.

I have lived at several addresses since and have never received a letter, or any other communication, regarding this matter. I have been traceable as in 2007 british gas caught up with me for an unpaid bill at a previous address. I know how these things work and I know how easy it is to trace people 'off the radar' as I used to do it for a living. Therefore, I believe that if O2 or CPW wished to pursue me, they could have with ease, or at the very least given the job to a debt collector to do it for them.

So having heard nothing for eight years or so this suddenly appears out of the blue. When I spoke to the debt collector they were keen to go though my income and outgoings with me, and pushed the point until I quite rudely told the guy that I was handling this phone call, not him.

So as it stands now, I apparently owe £650 for a debt I didn't know existed for a service I terminated and no longer have any paperwork for.

Carphone warehouse will not deal with me as it's 'now in the hands of one of their specialist contractors' so I cannot obtain information there. One thing which did occur to me though was a Freedom of Information Request, I presume they have to abide by that?

Now there is no way I'm paying up as I don't feel I'm in the wrong and short of CPW/O2 not cancelling the contract, or at least with their accounts department, I don't see how so much money could have racked up. I have little information to go on and this genuinely has arrived out of the blue.

So OCUK, what is the best course of action? The debt collector has already put a 'contacted but refused to deal' marker on my 'account' although I have managed to get them to give me two weeks with the account on hold to find out what the hell is going on.

I really don't want this to cost me anything so proper legal advice will only be sought if no other option remains.

Thanks
 
Only skimmed this really but you have not heard any thing at all for 8 years?.

If so you may be able to wipe it any thing over 7 years I think they say they cant expect people to remember .

When you spoke to him did you say any thing that made ecknowledgement of the dept as soon as you say any thing that makes them aware that you are aware its game over
 
Do you have any proof to provide them that the 02 contract had been cancelled properly without debt?

Edit: just noticed the part where you mention the lack of documents.

You're boned.
 
Refuse to deal with them on the phone. Write a letter by recorded delivery and keep it short and sweet.

I refer to your correspondence dated (date), the contents of which are noted. Take note that I refute the existence of any such alleged debt entirely, it is a fiction. Further or in the alternative please note that any such alleged debt would in any case be statute barred, and any attempt to enforce collection is an offence.

Please do not contact me again except to send written confirmation that this matter is closed.

;)
 
Check your credit report!

experian or equifax can provide you with this.

A mobile phone contract is a credit agreement. If you have breached this for the last 8 years your cred report will be screwed.

It will also show you if the account was settled and on what date. And if not how much is outstanding.

I will add that info only HAS to stay on your credit report for 6 years but these agencies do not usually remove info unless asked.

There is also the possibility that someone else used your info to obtain a new contract and then did not pay.

This happened to a guy at work through carphone warehouse turned out it was an employee taking out upgrades on peoples accounts!
 
Heard of this happening before. No idea how it was solved. Did you cancel your direct debit when you cancelled the phone contract?
 
Surely it's up to them (CPW/Debt collector/O2) to prove that you owe them money? It's not your responsibility to prove that you don't owe them anything.
 
Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes
 
Tell the debt collectors that they must have CPW Send you the details of the outstanding amount.
if they cannot do this then they can contact the court.
 
D.Roberts said:
Only skimmed this really but you have not heard any thing at all for 8 years?.

If so you may be able to wipe it any thing over 7 years I think they say they cant expect people to remember .

When you spoke to him did you say any thing that made ecknowledgement of the dept as soon as you say any thing that makes them aware that you are aware its game over
Click to expand...

No, at the time on the phone I had absolutely no recollection of this whatsoever, it was only having a good think afterwards when I remembered this phone contract. I've not heard a peep from anyone about this for as far back as I can remember.

As far as they know I do not believe this debt even exists.

Rainmaker said:
Refuse to deal with them on the phone. Write a letter by recorded delivery and keep it short and sweet.

I refer to your correspondence dated (date), the contents of which are noted. Take note that I refute the existence of any such alleged debt entirely, it is a fiction. Further or in the alternative please note that any such alleged debt would in any case be statute barred, and any attempt to enforce collection is an offence.

Please do not contact me again except to send written confirmation that this matter is closed.

;)
Click to expand...

Good thinking, I shall do this tonight.

CraigN said:
Check your credit report!

experian or equifax can provide you with this.

A mobile phone contract is a credit agreement. If you have breached this for the last 8 years your cred report will be screwed.

It will also show you if the account was settled and on what date. And if not how much is outstanding.

I will add that info only HAS to stay on your credit report for 6 years but these agencies do not usually remove info unless asked.
!
Click to expand...

I have the experian tracker thing and I used both experian and equifax to check my credit history when applying for the mortgage in March 2012 - nothing showed up on those and I went back a fair few years. I will have a good look at it later.

If they mark my report and prevent me from re-mortgaging next year I shall be very unhappy. What can I do about that (short of paying)?
 
mejinks said:
Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes
Click to expand...

THIS
 
mejinks said:
Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes
Click to expand...

I like that! Seems like it could well wrap it up.

Diagro said:
Tell the debt collectors that they must have CPW Send you the details of the outstanding amount.
if they cannot do this then they can contact the court.
Click to expand...

I was tempted to tell the bloke to just take me to court but then thought a little restraint might go a long way here. I think I will try mejinks's letter above and use this as a backup plan should it be necessary.
 
Edit,

It does help to read the whole thread, the letter above is correct. Send it by recorded delivery and they will walk away!
 
Last edited:
mejinks said:
Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes
Click to expand...

I don't know if any of that is actually correct, but if it is that is one of the greatest replies to a help thread.
 
Experian won't necessarily show anything. If you did default, it would have flagged six months of payments overdue, then the account would auto drop into default. That would have been removed after 6 years, so I doubt you will see anything there.

The letter above is best approach

Edit you could also phone O2 to ask for more info
 
I had a letter from a law firm a few months ago saying that i owe £20 on a tmobile contract from 3 years ago. They said that i didn't pay the last bill. I called them up and went over the details for over an hour and ended up paying the amount because I had no way of proving them wrong. They said that the underpaid bill was ruining my credit rating and asked if i have had problems with credit and i have not been able to get any credit for years. This is why, to make it worse, this is from the contract where tmobile ripped me off completely with the worst phone and over priced contract. To get a call years later from a law firm asking for £20, disgusting.

I heard though that when debt is bought by an another company you don't legally have to pay it because you have no contract with them and it is there problem that they bought the debt. But it will still ruin your credit rating.
 
BigBoy said:
The account is 8+years old the letter you got was a fishing expedition on the part of the collectors, you contacting them is taken that you have admitted to having the debt and they can now persue you for said debt.

Unfortunately now you have recognised/been informed of the debt you have to pay it off. If you had ignored it you could have walked away!
Click to expand...

Ninja'd, was just about to say read it but you've twigged :)
 
Send that letter.

Just remember that its in DISPUTE.... thats the important word. It means you do not accept the alleged debt and as such they cannot go further without obtaining PROOF of the debt... and thats a signed agreement usually.

Most likely the account was not closed correctly and the computer just sat there happily adding it up before it was automatically handed to debt collectors.
 
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