Help regarding a debt collector

[cyber69]

If you don't get an answer from this forum then try your local Citizen's advice or a local solicitor as they sometime's do a free phone consultation advice service certain days of the week.

I'm sure that the 7 year rule would apply to this.

 

[Redgie]

Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes

This man deserves the man of honour 2013 title. Why wait till the end of the year.

 

[Spud21]

I had a letter from a law firm a few months ago saying that i owe £20 on a tmobile contract from 3 years ago. They said that i didn't pay the last bill. I called them up and went over the details for over an hour and ended up paying the amount because I had no way of proving them wrong. They said that the underpaid bill was ruining my credit rating and asked if i have had problems with credit and i have not been able to get any credit for years. This is why, to make it worse, this is from the contract where tmobile ripped me off completely with the worst phone and over priced contract. To get a call years later from a law firm asking for £20, disgusting.

I heard though that when debt is bought by an another company you don't legally have to pay it because you have no contract with them and it is there problem that they bought the debt. But it will still ruin your credit rating.

If you owe the money you have to pay them, debt is an asset that can be legitimately purchased and transferred from company to company. However the onus is upon the debt collection company to prove that you owe the money, if they cant do that then there is nothing they can do i believe.

 

[jamief]

I had a letter from a law firm a few months ago saying that i owe £20 on a tmobile contract from 3 years ago. They said that i didn't pay the last bill. I called them up and went over the details for over an hour and ended up paying the amount because I had no way of proving them wrong. They said that the underpaid bill was ruining my credit rating and asked if i have had problems with credit and i have not been able to get any credit for years. This is why, to make it worse, this is from the contract where tmobile ripped me off completely with the worst phone and over priced contract. To get a call years later from a law firm asking for £20, disgusting.

I heard though that when debt is bought by an another company you don't legally have to pay it because you have no contract with them and it is there problem that they bought the debt. But it will still ruin your credit rating.

pro-tip : It wasn't a "law firm".

 

[shoes]

Edit,

It does help to read the whole thread, the letter above is correct. Send it by recorded delivery and they will walk away!

One point regarding your original post before you edited it; the company did not identify themselves as a debt collection agency anywhere on their letter. There was no mention that this 'personal matter' was anything to do with a debt. There were no ways to pay mentioned.

I'll scan in the letter in case I'm missing anything, but by that logic, surely phoning an company to answer an unknown 'personal matter' cannot possibly be construed as admitting to the debt? If it said 'you owe CPW £lol' and I called up then fair enough, but this letter was very stealthy IMO.

For anyone else who might get these letters in the future - how does that work, as you aren't ringing about a debt until they tell you that you are on the telephone.

 

[shoes]

This man deserves the man of honour 2013 title. Why wait till the end of the year.

Yeah I couldn't agree more, many thanks again mejinks!

 

[Theophany]

Sneaky buggers with the letter, but to be expected I suppose. Whenever somebody telephones me these days I never answer to my name until I know exactly who is calling and why. Letters that do not expressly state their business go in the shredder and all my telephone conversations are recorded.

Seems like everybody out there is trying to shaft you sometimes.

 

[Redgie]

Sneaky buggers with the letter, but to be expected I suppose. Whenever somebody telephones me these days I never answer to my name until I know exactly who is calling and why. Letters that do not expressly state their business go in the shredder and all my telephone conversations are recorded.

Seems like everybody out there is trying to shaft you sometimes.

Do you also wear a tinfoil hat when answering ?
I do see your point, but I couldn't resist

 

[div0]

I like that! Seems like it could well wrap it up.

What mejinks is written is a pretty decent template and covers most of the relevant information.

There's a lot of good information on sites such as MSE, with other examples of template letters. It is worth reading up, just so you understand what constitutes a 'valid' response, which should result in them ceasing to pursue you.

It is very easy to write a letter that sounds good, but doesn't raise the relevant points and so won't necessarily get the result you want.

In future, I'd never deal with them by phone, as it gives them an opportunity to harass you and they will try to talk you into 'accepting' the debt.

 

[Theophany]

Do you also wear a tinfoil hat when answering ?
I do see your point, but I couldn't resist

I'm busy fashioning one actually, I want it to be an enormous tinfoil stetson!

 

['Harry]

Whatever you do, do not give them your phone number. If they get hold of it never confirm your name/address. They have you if you do. You'll get calls everyday, plus weekly/monthly letters with big red writing (lol)

 

[div0]

This man deserves the man of honour 2013 title. Why wait till the end of the year.

Mejinks advice is no doubt good, but I'm sure he'd be the first to point out that it is just a cut+paste from a standard template response on sites such as http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/.

Other people have also directed the OP to such links, where the same information can be found (along with a lot of other helpful information). It's often good to actually read these sites and understand what makes a letter (such as the one Mejinks posted) a good response.

 

[mejinks]

Debt collection companies don't put the matter in the letter because they need to confirm it is actually you. To start with Dear sir, you owe us money from a CPW contract would be a breach of the DPA.

IANAL, but I WAS a debt collector. I was one of the nice ones though that got paid regardless of if the punter paid the debt or not (the company I worked for didn't buy the debt per se, but got hired by black horse/yes/an other finance, so I know a fair bit. I used to have a stack of preprinted letters for them to "send" to me as I would get paid for going back again

One thing I learned was never under any circumstance use Yes finance for anything and that Blackhorse are brilliant for the punters as they really try every avenue before sending in the debt collectors. Oh and a stab proof vest is mandatory in Bristol

 

[Montala]

Surely you are entitled to ask for, and they are obliged to provide, detailed paperwork showing exactly how the disputed amount has been arrived at.

 

[Cupra]

Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes

I was under the impression to make a debt statue barred you must apply at the court and not send any corrispondance to the company trying to claim the money?

 

[shoes]

Right I have spoken to my boss who used to be a debt collector. His take on this is as follows:

The debt most likely does exist but probably only through an error at their end. The people who contacted me take on written off debt and offer the client a small percentage of it (bearing in mind it's already written off) if they can get paid. They then work on the basis that for every 1000 letters they send out they hope that a handful of people will be scared into just paying up. And that is where they make their money.

He has told me to just ignore it, although I'd sooner send the letter mentioned earlier in the thread and know that they have stopped chasing me.

 

[Ilikeitblackplease]

I received a letter yesterday from a company called MakenzieHall in Ayrshire asking a Mr <My Name> to contact them regarding a personal matter and that they believe I reside at <my address>.

I have never heard of this company and was a littler perplexed to find they were a debt collection agency when googling them. Their letter head made no suggestion whatsoever of what it is they do.

I rang them back this morning to find out what was going on and to my shock they informed me that I owe Carphone Warehouse over £650. Bearing in mind I have had an Orange contract for nearly eight years (March 2013 will be the end of the eighth year) I had no idea what he was talking about.

When I was 18, in 2004, I took out a contract with O2 from the Carphone warehouse. At the end of the contract I cancelled went to Orange, as they were offering a very good deal at the time. At the end of the CPW contract I was not in credit or debit with CPW, I was paid up and the contract was terminated.

Apparently not. This debt collector has the contract as 'involuntarily terminated' although he has no date for when this occurred. They also have no information as to how such a biblical amount of money has been accrued from a £25/month mobile phone contract.

At the time of switching to Orange I lived with my parents and both mum and my step dad cannot recall any letters from CPW or O2 regarding this matter. They still live at this address.

I have lived at several addresses since and have never received a letter, or any other communication, regarding this matter. I have been traceable as in 2007 british gas caught up with me for an unpaid bill at a previous address. I know how these things work and I know how easy it is to trace people 'off the radar' as I used to do it for a living. Therefore, I believe that if O2 or CPW wished to pursue me, they could have with ease, or at the very least given the job to a debt collector to do it for them.

So having heard nothing for eight years or so this suddenly appears out of the blue. When I spoke to the debt collector they were keen to go though my income and outgoings with me, and pushed the point until I quite rudely told the guy that I was handling this phone call, not him.

So as it stands now, I apparently owe £650 for a debt I didn't know existed for a service I terminated and no longer have any paperwork for.

Carphone warehouse will not deal with me as it's 'now in the hands of one of their specialist contractors' so I cannot obtain information there. One thing which did occur to me though was a Freedom of Information Request, I presume they have to abide by that?

Now there is no way I'm paying up as I don't feel I'm in the wrong and short of CPW/O2 not cancelling the contract, or at least with their accounts department, I don't see how so much money could have racked up. I have little information to go on and this genuinely has arrived out of the blue.

So OCUK, what is the best course of action? The debt collector has already put a 'contacted but refused to deal' marker on my 'account' although I have managed to get them to give me two weeks with the account on hold to find out what the hell is going on.

I really don't want this to cost me anything so proper legal advice will only be sought if no other option remains.

Thanks

As long as you say you have no recollection of that, and its over 6 years there is nothing they can do.
They are fishing in the hope they get a few people, they most likely purchase your debt for a £1. The most important thing here is not to acknowledge the debt because its over 6 or 7 years, if you do acknowledge the debt the whole thing could re-set itself.
Call them up tell them you have no idea what they are talking about and ask them not to contact you in the future, how ever the best thing here is to put it in the bin and forget about it.

 

[Haggisman]

Send the suggested letter. Don't forget to charge them a £35 consultation fee for the phone call, and a £99 administration fee for the letter.

 

[Sho]

Write the following:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir/Madam
Account No:
You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully

Mr Shoes

This...!

 

[krooton]

I worked in the head office for 8 years, and if I was still there I could have had a look at your old account.

O2 won't help as back in the day, CPW were contracted under O2 to manage a portion of customer themselves, so all billing, servicing, etc was done by CPW directly.

Did you port your number from O2 to Orange? If so, it should have auto-disconnected the account on CPW's end, and if that didn't happen, then it's CPW's system at fault.

If you didn't port, then you will have needed to write in requesting disconnection.

System data is held indefinitely, so any customer notes will be on file in the sales and billing systems, including whatever they believed you address to be, and where any correspondence from the Credit Control department would have gone. Did you give any alternative contact numbers when you took out the O2 contract?

As it stands, I would say ignore it. For it to have gone for so long, and with proof that you did not use the account (there will be no call or text records, any charges will be purely line rental, which are easily written off), they are just trying to squeeze any revenue they can out of all the people in a similar position to you.