Council tax evasion.

aln said:
Just because it's always there doesn't mean I have to agree with it. It'd rather see it completely abolished. Then again, I'm for a more simpler tax system in general, but I gather people would balk if the their tax burdern was an easy to discover % of income.
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I agree with you here. I would rather pay one megatax than a whole bunch of them. Council tax, road tax, VAT, income tax, capital gains tax, fuel duty, alcohol, tobacco. It doesn't make sense to separate it all out.
Would also be cheaper to enforce and collect.

groen said:
Public sector waste and taking the **** is at an all time high. Government workers get more money and work less than ever before. You heard it here first.

<snip>

Lets see some investigations in to these public sector employees, lets see if they earn their salaries and their pensions.
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The exact same thing happens in the private sector too. But pointing that out is not nearly as fun as demonising the public sector eh?
 
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atpbx said:
As you are, I assume, a sane person, the taxes are theft fallacy is something you should have disregarded in 6th form.

We are governed by democratic consent, the people we have collectively voted to govern us do so by providing services that we agree to fund through taxes.

By deciding to not pay towards the greater good you decide to accept what ever punishments the democratically elected government decide to impose.

If we lived in a dictatorship, you would have the makings of a point.
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The only fallacy there is the greater good, haha. The government is not for the greater good, the government is for the interests of the individuals benefiting from the government, be that employees of the state or welfare recipients. The politicians make promises to voters that they will get free stuff. The voters vote for more free stuff. The majority of voters are voting based on what will benefit them the most. Democracy is merely the dictatorship of the majority.

I love how it gets twisted in to anti-tax individuals being evil people that don't want support dying disabled children...
 
Woden said:
I agree with you here. I would rather pay one megatax than a whole bunch of them. Council tax, road tax, VAT, income tax, capital gains tax, fuel duty, alcohol, tobacco. It doesn't make sense to separate it all out.
Would also be cheaper to enforce and collect.
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Well I know I'm arguing against my own point but when you're talking about tobacco, you're talking about a substance that is somewhat harmful to society and the additional tax is supposed to be offsetting the damage.

This argument stands with alcohol too. Though it's possible to enjoy a drink without becoming hostile or damaging yourself, making the tax less fair, we do have a bit of a problem with binge drinking and it as much the same effect on the NHS.

I imagine we could do without the rest though. I do wonder how much we spend administering such a system though.
 
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Phatzy said:
My mother is 58 on £178 a week full time working in warehouse making insulation for boilers, houses etc.
On no benefits because apparently she is above the fresh hold which I find hard to believe.

Rent = £79
Gas and Electric = £60
Bus to work = £19

Leaves her with £20 for food to last the week.

Being unable to eat and live is what is making people act like morons.
Not everyone is on a decent wage.
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Hope you took others advice as the gas/leccy figures can't be right! Should easily be half that, even my crappy 15 year old boiler and leaky windows don't leave me with a bill near that big :eek:
 
aln said:
Well I know I'm arguing against my own point but when you're talking about tobacco, you're talking about a substance that is somewhat harmful to society and the additional tax is supposed to be offsetting the damage.

This argument stands with alcohol too. Though it's possible to enjoy a drink without becoming hostile or damaging yourself, making the tax less fair, we do have a bit of a problem with binge drinking and it as much the same effect on the NHS.

I imagine we could do without the rest though. I do wonder how much we spend administering such a system though.
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Tobacco I think (imho, ymmv, etc), over time, tobacco will solve itself. Smoking rates are dropping, albeit a little too slowly. I would like tobacco to be banned outright, but there would be riots.
Alcohol has its benefits though, there needs to be a big change in the current cultural view of alcohol consumption in the UK. I would still be happier with no separate tax or it though, and I am a moderate drinker (3, maybe 4 bottles of ale a week).
 
Woden said:
Tobacco I think (imho, ymmv, etc), over time, tobacco will solve itself. Smoking rates are dropping, albeit a little too slowly. I would like tobacco to be banned outright, but there would be riots.
Alcohol has its benefits though, there needs to be a big change in the current cultural view of alcohol consumption in the UK. I would still be happier with no separate tax or it though, and I am a moderate drinker (3, maybe 4 bottles of ale a week).
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Yeah I don't think I'd be massively upset myself but I can imagine an outcry. I wouldn't like to see a ban though. I like people being able to do what they want and this includes killing themselves if they must.
 
aln said:
Yeah I don't think I'd be massively upset myself but I can imagine an outcry. I wouldn't like to see a ban though. I like people being able to do what they want and this includes killing themselves if they must.
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Do what they want as long as it doesn't infringe on other peoples rights or liberties. People that smoke are costing me money and pushing up my NHS waiting time.
 
Inquizitor said:
Yeah, it's about £40 a month shared with my landlady. The bins and recycling are taken on time, the roads are kept gritted, they came and removed an old fridge for me since I don't have a car.
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Try paying £100 more than that on your own, rather than shared. Then have a think if you are getting such a good deal.
 
aln said:
I dunno, what do I really get for my £100?
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Bins emptied, pavements, police service, fire service, street lighting, parks, libraries, schools, public transport, safer taxis, pest control ... need I go on?
 
Woden said:
Bins emptied, pavements, police service, fire service, street lighting, parks, libraries, schools, public transport, safer taxis, pest control ... need I go on?
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Yeah. Since I'm paying for it, I'd like some transparency bro.
 
aln said:
Yeah. Since I'm paying for it, I'd like some transparency bro.
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Its pretty much fully transparent, you won't get individual wages though. Write to your council, they will send you the info no problem.
 
groen said:
Public sector waste and taking the **** is at an all time high. Government workers get more money and work less than ever before. You heard it here first.


Lets see some investigations in to these public sector employees, lets see if they earn their salaries and their pensions.
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What the hell has Canada got to do with British Public Services.

As someone who's worked in the public sector I can confirm you are mostly speaking tosh. Are there lazy middle managers who spend all day attending meetings, sure in some cases but that is my experience of the private sector too.

I'd love to see you get up at 5 am every morning, in all weathers including the recent snow to go and empty people's bins for 9 hours a day without a proper break. Let's see how 'lazy' you think they are then.
 
estebanrey said:
What the hell has Canada got to do with British Public Services.

As someone who's worked in the public sector I can confirm you are mostly speaking tosh. Are there lazy middle managers who spend all day attending meetings, sure in some cases but that is my experience of the private sector too.

I'd love to see you get up at 5 am every morning, in all weathers including the recent snow to go and empty people's bins for 9 hours a day without a proper break. Let's see how 'lazy' you think they are then.
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Piece of cake. I'd do that any day of the week. In fact, I'd enjoy it.
 
estebanrey said:
What the hell has Canada got to do with British Public Services.

As someone who's worked in the public sector I can confirm you are mostly speaking tosh. Are there lazy middle managers who spend all day attending meetings, sure in some cases but that is my experience of the private sector too.

I'd love to see you get up at 5 am every morning, in all weathers including the recent snow to go and empty people's bins for 9 hours a day without a proper break. Let's see how 'lazy' you think they are then.
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I have always said that all i use is rubbish collection and the pavement to the train station. Which means that £1100 a year is a bit much for my rubbish collection especially when it is every second week and they make money off my recycling. The state at this point have probably out sourced rubbish collection and other actual real activities. the only things still fully public are the none jobs with high pensions. Even the bus costs £2.40 to go one stop, socialism at its best, my bus travel subsidies the long journey's all because the bus driver is too lazy to work a variable payment system. That was a tangent.

I looked in to council tax budget and they don't fund all those things, like Bins emptied, pavements, police service, fire service, street lighting, parks, libraries, schools, public transport, safer taxis, pest control.
 
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I think people forget how expensive it is to build/maintain/run things in the public domain. Council tax is a bargain.

Oh and for the record we pay £1,395.34 for a 2 bed top floor flat, up £2 from last year.
 
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groen said:
I have always said that all i use is rubbish collection and the pavement to the train station.
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So you don't use street lights, the police, fire service, shops (trading standards), roads (be that car, on bike or public transport), parks, restaurants/food outlets (environmental health) etc?

groen said:
Which means that £1100 a year is a bit much for my rubbish collection especially when it is every second week and they make money off my recycling.
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You're correct that the rubbish collection element is a tiny proportion of your CT bill. But they don't 'make money' from your recycling. It's a lot cheaper to dispose than residual waste but they don't paid for it. What you mean is they are saving money by you recycling.

groen said:
The state at this point have probably out sourced rubbish collection and other actual real activities.
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Probably, or they have? And if they have, what's the problem if you get the same service? Don't think that you could hire the same company on a personal level for the same price.

When they outsource rubbish collection (and I don't agree with it but I'm biased) they are effectively using their powers of economies of scale so you still get a cheap service. Try phoning up a private company and setting up a personal collection service, put a FOI request into your council asking how much it costs them per household and see the massive difference.

groen said:
Even the bus costs £2.40 to go one stop, socialism at its best
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Bus companies were privatized yonks ago so you're feud should be with capitalism there mate.

groen said:
I looked in to council tax budget and they don't fund all those things, like Bins emptied, pavements, police service, fire service, street lighting, parks, libraries, schools, public transport, safer taxis, pest control.
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Yes they do.
 
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