Negotiating contracting day rates?

[Prophet]

I'm looking for advice from other contractors on how they deal with negotiating day rates. I've been approached by a few agents asking for my rate on varying jobs (2nd or 3rd line support/roll-out and generic 3rd line support)

As I'm new to contacting I'm happy to start a little lower to get my foot in the door (good move?) but don't know if aiming high will either put people off or if it's common practice.

Any help would be great

 

[HarryPainful]

First rule of contracting club, ask the agency the rate, don't tell them what you're after!!

Just cone out with it, don't worry about coming across rude, they don't care and want to get you as low as possible so their cut is higher.

And don't pitch yourself lower, there is no reason to, contracting moves fast do don't worry about getting your foot in the door either.

 

[Dugganator]

I'm looking for advice from other contractors on how they deal with negotiating day rates. I've been approached by a few agents asking for my rate on varying jobs (2nd or 3rd line support/roll-out and generic 3rd line support)

As I'm new to contacting I'm happy to start a little lower to get my foot in the door (good move?) but don't know if aiming high will either put people off or if it's common practice.

Any help would be great

My advise is always ask for the rate you want when contracting. If an agency call you they will always ask you what your bottom line is and in 99% of cases if you get the jobs that's what your get as they will give you the lowest amount to increase there profits as they will be normally invoicing higher. So if you said the lowest you would accept is 200 they would charge 350. Most agency are scum I try to avoid them and contract directly when possible.

Only time I would personally low my daily rate is if i was out of work for a long period and needed something until i found something else.

Not sure if you have seen the site below but I found it very helpful when I first started contracting.

http://www.contractoruk.com/

http://www.contractoruk.com/first_timers/

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

First rule of contracting club, ask the agency the rate, don't tell them what you're after!!

Just cone out with it, don't worry about coming across rude, they don't care and want to get you as low as possible so their cut is higher.

And don't pitch yourself lower, there is no reason to, contracting moves fast do don't worry about getting your foot in the door either.

Not strictly true.

A lot of the roles I see these days (admittedly not support roles) are on fixed % so the higher the rate you get the more they get.

 

[HarryPainful]

Not strictly true.

A lot of the roles I see these days (admittedly not support roles) are on fixed % so the higher the rate you get the more they get.

I have never seen a contract like that in 9 years of contracting, support, project work, consulting etc, they always have the day/hour rate arranged with the client and then advertise.

I have got to know quite a few guys at agencies very well and its cut throat, if they have a role at £500/day they want to put someone who stands a chance of getting the role as low as possible so their mark up is maximized.

A guy I know from Hayes IT was banking almost £1000 a day off the back of a few guys that he put in lower, for 18 months...

 

[Dugganator]

Not strictly true.

A lot of the roles I see these days (admittedly not support roles) are on fixed % so the higher the rate you get the more they get.

Are you sure this isnt one of the lines they feed you im sure i have seen this on a list of things to watch out for from agencies. I would be interested to hear about this and who does this btw for future reference as i wouldnt mind my name being on there books

 

[Prophet]

Thanks for the great advice. I'm off to check out the sites now

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

I have never seen a contract like that in 9 years of contracting, support, project work, consulting etc, they always have the day/hour rate arranged with the client and then advertise.

Are you sure this isnt one of the lines they feed you im sure i have seen this on a list of things to watch out for from agencies. I would be interested to hear about this and who does this btw for future reference as i wouldnt mind my name being on there books

All roles at Sky are based upon this model, for example.

 

[Dugganator]

All roles at Sky are based upon this model, for example.

Would I be wrong in thinking this is because sky and that agency have a standing agreement? IE they provide all contractors for all roles at x rate and don't deal with anyone else unless its a role they cant provide? With a big company like that it would make sense as they will making big money anyway where all the smaller agencies don't work this way.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Would I be wrong in thinking this is because sky and that agency have a standing agreement? IE they provide all contractors for all roles at x rate and don't deal with anyone else unless its a role they cant provide? With a big company like that it would make sense as they will making big money anyway where all the smaller agencies don't work this way.

Afaik it's all agencies with Sky. They don't talk to you unless you are on the PSL and you have to sign up to that to get on the PSL.

 

[dowie]

A guy I know from Hayes IT was banking almost £1000 a day off the back of a few guys that he put in lower, for 18 months...

that's a drop in the water compared to some of the sharks out there... and hays is getting a large chunk of that rather than the recruiter himself

I don't contract but former colleagues and some people I deal with at clients do - I'm aware of at least one manager at an investment bank who runs his own 'agency' on the side.... while he does apparently place people at other banks strangely enough a few of them are placed at the bank he works at where either he or one of his buddies are making the hiring decisions... essentially he makes more money from the contractors than he does from his middle management role at the bank but keeps the position as it allows him to place his own candidates... I guess if you want to make a few million from this game then that's the way to do it. Pretty sweet position to be in if you partially control a budget that an entity you set up outside of work is taking a hefty slice out of with candidates you've placed yourself. The contractors themselves don't have the option of shaking off the agency after 6 months either, essentially he owns a piece of everyone he places for the rest of their time in the bank.

 

[Lighters]

Similiar situation myself, been offered an interview for possible contracting role and I asked the daily rate and hes quoted me £150.

I have 1 previous contract experience for 9 months at £110 and was wondering if I should consider asking for more? I'f I'm honest I would do it for £150 but when I was on my last role some guys were getting £210 etc for exactly the same job/role as myself with less quality :'( - to be fair they had more experience but I was expecting my next contract to be atleast 170+

Edit should I bring this up in the actual interview or when signing contracts etc? If they turn around and say 150 is all they can do do I try my luck and say well I'm after £170

 

[beamer]

And this is why I detest working for or with banks in general. Morals of Satan most of them.

that's a drop in the water compared to some of the sharks out there... and hays is getting a large chunk of that rather than the recruiter himself

I don't contract but former colleagues and some people I deal with at clients do - I'm aware of at least one manager at an investment bank who runs his own 'agency' on the side.... while he does apparently place people at other banks strangely enough a few of them are placed at the bank he works at where either he or one of his buddies are making the hiring decisions... essentially he makes more money from the contractors than he does from his middle management role at the bank but keeps the position as it allows him to place his own candidates... I guess if you want to make a few million from this game then that's the way to do it. Pretty sweet position to be in if you partially control a budget that an entity you set up outside of work is taking a hefty slice out of with candidates you've placed yourself. The contractors themselves don't have the option of shaking off the agency after 6 months either, essentially he owns a piece of everyone he places for the rest of their time in the bank.

 

[Lighters]

Found this interesting!

http://www.contractorcalculator.co.uk/negotiating_contract_rate.aspx

 

[Morba]

Similiar situation myself, been offered an interview for possible contracting role and I asked the daily rate and hes quoted me £150.

I have 1 previous contract experience for 9 months at £110 and was wondering if I should consider asking for more? I'f I'm honest I would do it for £150 but when I was on my last role some guys were getting £210 etc for exactly the same job/role as myself with less quality :'( - to be fair they had more experience but I was expecting my next contract to be atleast 170+

Edit should I bring this up in the actual interview or when signing contracts etc? If they turn around and say 150 is all they can do do I try my luck and say well I'm after £170

When I was contracting it was a case that you agree with the agency what rate to put you forward at. Then you are interviews or not, based on the rate given to them.
You don't negotiate more with the company you will be working with.


Also like Asprilla mentioned, all of mine were done on agency getting a percentage of my rate on top of my rate.
Additionally, in all my contracts the hiring company would only allow candidates from the agreed agencies. No outside agency applications would be accepted.