Poundland Girl Wins Forced Labour Ruling

creating a new job while paying less can be good sure, but the problem is thats not what will happen, companies will have a race to the bottom paying as little as possible. and as people have said paying someone more may help them be a more productive happy member of staff. rather than paying them a pittance and then expecting the state to top up there wage making them feel even more down at having to live on hand outs rather than their own two feet.

as i have said, the min wage isnt even enough to live on without working tax credits now, imagine if you dropped min wage by half how much extra would the gov pick up. if any for that matter with some of the ramblings coming out of the dwp of late they want to cut working tax credits.

again this is only my view from working for such wages and searching for work while we had no min wage.
 
My guy told me that tesco were saying they had no jobs available at all for a while but then as soon as they dropped out of the workfare scheme they advertised a few hundred jobs in leeds alone. :D Wonder where they all came from and who was taking them up before.... Although from what i'm reading they haven't actually dropped out fully.
 
GAC said:
creating a new job while paying less can be good sure, but the problem is thats not what will happen, companies will have a race to the bottom paying as little as possible. and as people have said paying someone more may help them be a more productive happy member of staff. rather than paying them a pittance and then expecting the state to top up there wage making them feel even more down at having to live on hand outs rather than their own two feet.

as i have said, the min wage isnt even enough to live on without working tax credits now, imagine if you dropped min wage by half how much extra would the gov pick up. if any for that matter with some of the ramblings coming out of the dwp of late they want to cut working tax credits.

again this is only my view from working for such wages and searching for work while we had no min wage.
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It might not happen, agreed, but it is also something that might. Which side to err on, is not a topic that is likely to be decided here.

Companies may well be willing to pay more to have someone more productive. Alternatively, jobs might be created by hiring low paid staff for jobs which otherwise wouldn't be done. Just as an example - greeters in a big store. Now it's not particularly necessary and most stores wouldn't have one. However, would it be worth it to them to create a role and pay someone a bit just to improve the customer experience?

The govt. would have to pick up extra to make up for the ones who are on min. wage and for whom it is reduced. However, what about the people who start working and then need half instead of 100% from them? It won't definitely balance out, but it could do. More people working, even at lesser rates, could be a positive.

I am thinking it out logically here though without the past experience that you have had. It might work out exactly as you said instead, but I do think it is something worth considering objectively at least.

I was raised in India and there is no minimum wage. There is a lot of abject poverty, but I also see a huge number of jobs which are being carried out which really aren't necessary. Hotels have staff for the elevators who do nothing but press the button. They have multiple people outside to do nothing but greet guests and open/close car doors (+ they all get tipped).

Would these jobs exist if there was a minimum wage? I doubt it. I also see that if the person has a certain level of skill, even in a relatively unskilled jobs (as an example, servant in India), they are able to, and get paid, more. People/companies are often willing to pay extra to get someone who is actually good and this may well result in the jobs that are worth the current minimum, to stay at that minimum.
 
Skillmister said:
My guy told me that tesco were saying they had no jobs available at all for a while but then as soon as they dropped out of the workfare scheme they advertised a few hundred jobs in leeds alone. :D Wonder where they all came from and who was taking them up before.... Although from what i'm reading they haven't actually dropped out fully.
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Hilarious, guess I'm gunna take a trip around the local supermarkets then.

Wonder what my JSA advisor will retort when I tell him I am really enthusiastic about finding a job now that their work programme has closed and opened thousands of new paying jobs.
 
thinking of it logically and thinking about profitability are two very different things.

employing someone and paying them more to produce a great result could happen now in many min wage jobs, but wont happen as why pay more when you dont have to ? everyone has a moan about how most retail people are miserable and not very friendly in some instances, if the retail companies where thinking logically they would try to make there staff seem less miserable, maybe pay them £1 more per hour, only a small increase but im sure would make a lot of people feel better than being on min wage, but it doesnt happen because it would eat in to profits.

as iv said above, would the gov pick up the short fall ?? when i was on £2 an hour there wasnt any sort of working tax credits so all i got was my wage and sod all else, theres many mp's who want to scrap tax credits totally as its a big drain on the taxes, but at the same time these same idiots talk about the min wage needing to be scraped to make the uk more competitive. so i wouldnt expect the gov to look after the poorest as they cant manage that now just look at the shambles of local councils sitting on millions in the bank while crying about cutting services.

sure people in low paid jobs in india may very well get a pay rise for being good at there job (low skilled is a put down honestly and id like to see some of the so called high skilled people work at a low skilled job and see how long it takes for them to fail at it), but theres a minor difference in the cost of living from india and the uk, and why do you think companies have move stuff to india, its because they can pay next to nothing as well as have oppressive working conditions. just look up foxconn in china where apple has the vast majority of there kit made.

the funny thing is iv found a lot of people who cry that we dont need the min wage are in a industry where it wouldnt effect them personaly, im sure they would change their mind if they where on min wage or close to it.
 
The Government believes boycott workfare campaigners could make the schemes collapse.

In August 2012, the Information Commissioner ruled that the names of all organisations involved in Mandatory Work Activity (MWA) should be released. The DWP has appealed this decision, revealing in its papers that it considers protests could make the scheme collapse:

“Previous targeted campaigns had resulted in the withdrawal of providers from MWA and WE [work experience]… Put simply, disclosure [of names] would have been likely to have led to the collapse of the MWA scheme.”

In 2013, this information could well be released, but we can make the schemes collapse anyway. Every week, people use Boycott Workfare’s name and shame form to tell others who is using workfare and together we can keep up the pressure on those profiting from forced unpaid work.
 
Dolph said:
Then you need to accept that some people (especially the young and those with below average abilities) will be unemployable because the labour they can offer is not worth the rate.

Remember, employment is a result of value, not regulation
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Oh wow! back to page one, how did I miss this arrogant ugly statement. :mad:
 
Woden said:
Gone are the days when employers considered staff an investment.
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Love how people live in this bubble where 'staff' are righteous do gooders and the 'employer' is an evil monster :rolleyes:

I run a very small business for 10 years now. I have had to sack 4 members of staff for theft out of a total 9 individuals employed. Staff are a nightmare, so please pop the bubble and say hello to reality.
 
stuartw_b said:
Love how people live in this bubble where 'staff' are righteous do gooders and the 'employer' is an evil monster :rolleyes:

I run a very small business for 10 years now. I have had to sack 4 members of staff for theft out of a total 9 individuals employed. Staff are a nightmare, so please pop the bubble and say hello to reality.
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and all bosses are great people and pay high wages and have great working conditions for there employee's

end of the day you get good and bad in all walks of life, just seems you have more bad than most.
 
stuartw_b said:
Love how people live in this bubble where 'staff' are righteous do gooders and the 'employer' is an evil monster :rolleyes:

I run a very small business for 10 years now. I have had to sack 4 members of staff for theft out of a total 9 individuals employed. Staff are a nightmare, so please pop the bubble and say hello to reality.
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I have read my post back a few times now and I honestly can't see where I said employees are good, and employers are evil. Can you point it out for me? You can't honestly believe that your experiences are the norm? That almost half the working population are thieves?

Now, back to what I was actually saying, that has nothing at all to do with theft.

When I was taken on at 16 I had no qualifications (hadn't had my GCSE results yet) and no experience. Yet I got a decent wage (a fair bit over the NMW), same as the trained/experienced staff and got full training. 13 years later I am at the same place with more responsibility. Oddly I have never stolen anything. In fact, I have never known anyone hired in the same way as me steal anything.

I really shouldn't be a shock to employers that if you pay the minimum wage, you get the minimum amount of work done. Treat the staff badly, and the staff really won't care about their job or the company.

But, for some reason that is exactly what is happening. We have a large chink of the working population on minimum wage, which isn't even a living wage, but many employers expecting excellent performance. You wouldn't expect that with a car, you wouldn't expect that with a graphics card. Yet for some inexplicable reason, it is expected of staff.
 
spankingtexan said:
The Government believes boycott workfare campaigners could make the schemes collapse.

In August 2012, the Information Commissioner ruled that the names of all organisations involved in Mandatory Work Activity (MWA) should be released. The DWP has appealed this decision, revealing in its papers that it considers protests could make the scheme collapse:

“Previous targeted campaigns had resulted in the withdrawal of providers from MWA and WE [work experience]… Put simply, disclosure [of names] would have been likely to have led to the collapse of the MWA scheme.”

In 2013, this information could well be released, but we can make the schemes collapse anyway. Every week, people use Boycott Workfare’s name and shame form to tell others who is using workfare and together we can keep up the pressure on those profiting from forced unpaid work.
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the big difference here is if the work was something that was a social benefit then i would be inclined to agree, however I have no idea what benefits it brings to the community if corporations benefit, in fact there are n0 benefits to the community.
 
GAC said:
having worked for £2 an hour in the past before we had the min wage i can see such rates returning if the min wage was dropped. companies will pay as little as they can get away with.

sure you may get one or two that will pay its workers as they value them but the vast majority will cut wages fast and hard.

also why should the government have to pick up the bill so private companies can make more money ? the min wage is there as a hard level even if a tad low for a living wage.
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The private profits come from the state, companies know this and will continue to ask for handouts from the state.
 
I really shouldn't be a shock to employers that if you pay the minimum wage, you get the minimum amount of work done. Treat the staff badly, and the staff really won't care about their job or the company.
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Yeah totally.

Josef Stieglitz has written about this.

http://economics.mit.edu/files/548

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stiglitz#Efficiency_wages:_the_Shapiro-Stiglitz_model

Basically states that below a certain level people just aren't motivated.

It's quite interesting to see in action. The quality of work people do and the quality of new hires falls before your very eyes as the wages fall below a certain point.
 
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Latest news here, please contact your MP.

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

Posted: February 19th, 2013 | Author: editor | Filed under: Call to action | No Comments »


Labour introdcued workfare in the UK. It could now right that wrong. (Photo: btocher / flickr)
Iain Duncan Smith rushed through new regulations last week to end the vacuum left when almost every workfare scheme in the UK was found unlawful.

If Labour really believed in social justice and opposed workfare they would put in a motion as the Official Opposition within the following forty days to call for a debate and vote on it. Labour introduced workfare into the UK. This is the chance for them to right that wrong. The question is:

Does your MP want is what is best for you or what is best for Poundland?

Labour MP John McDonnell has tabled an Early Day Motion seeking an annulment of the new regulations. If it gets a lot of signatures from MPs of any party, the government could grant a vote. If your MP is in the Labour Party, they can also encourage the front bench to submit a motion as the Offical Opposition which stands a greater chance of success.

Take action: So that this can happen, and quickly, it is crucial that you contact your MP. You may like to use this template letter (or see the PDF version here). You can use it to email your MP in two clicks from the theyworkforyou.com website.

That’s it! Quick, easy and very important.

Please let us know how your MP responds. We plan to keep people updated over the next 40 days, as we prepare for the week of action. MPs can claim £250 a month in expenses without a receipt. People on JSA are expected to work in Poundland for no wages at all. Boycott Workfare. Boycott exploitation.
 
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Horse Pop said:
Yeah totally.

Josef Stieglitz has written about this.

http://economics.mit.edu/files/548

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stiglitz#Efficiency_wages:_the_Shapiro-Stiglitz_model

Basically states that below a certain level people just aren't motivated.

It's quite interesting to see in action. The quality of work people do and the quality of new hires falls before your very eyes as the wages fall below a certain point.
Click to expand...

It also shouldn't be a shock that the value of labour is determined by the value you add to the business and the cost of replacing you...
 
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