Would this kind of prison system work in the UK?

Robbo

Robbo

Robbo

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Interesting article in The Guardian today about a Norwegian prison with an alternative method of rehabilitation.

The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people

On Bastoy prison island in Norway, the prisoners, some of whom are murderers and rapists, live in conditions that critics brand 'cushy' and 'luxurious'. Yet it has by far the lowest reoffending rate in Europe

The first clue that things are done very differently on Bastoy prison island, which lies a couple of miles off the coast in the Oslo fjord, 46 miles south-east of Norway's capital, comes shortly after I board the prison ferry. I'm taken aback slightly when the ferry operative who welcomed me aboard just minutes earlier, and with whom I'm exchanging small talk about the weather, suddenly reveals he is a serving prisoner – doing 14 years for drug smuggling. He notes my surprise, smiles, and takes off a thick glove before offering me his hand. "I'm Petter," he says.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

While it all sounds well and good, I think they've had a large degree of luck with this system. There are some people you just can't rehabilitate, they're just nasty - for whatever reason - and you can't get that out of them.

I also think that, for a rapist/murderer, this is far, far better than they deserve (in most cases), and treating them in such a manner just doesn't seem right, or fair.

If anything, it may cause people to be not so bothered about criminal activity. Especially if they know the conditions they'll be subjected to are quite possibly better than their living conditions at present (or not too far off, anyway).

For that reason, and the fact we have an underclass of people who thrive on crime, I don't think this sort of system could be used in the UK. Do you?
 
I don't think it would work for the reasons you outlined. I suspect many rapists/murderers are relatively clever and so will factor this in when doing their pre-crime risk assessment, therefore concluding the crime'll be worth it.
 
I don't think prison deters criminals since none of them actually believe they will get caught. They just do what they do because they want to do it, and the consequences to themselves and their victims are nothing to them.

Just look at the worst prisons in the world - they are full of prisoners.
 
If anything, it may cause people to be not so bothered about criminal activity. Especially if they know the conditions they'll be subjected to are quite possibly better than their living conditions at present (or not too far off, anyway).
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Well it clearly doesn't as they have the lowest reoffending rates.
And how is it luck?
Yes it could work over here, no reason why it wouldn't.
The public would never allow it though.

What's more important? Punishment or reoffending rate and long term cost or housing reoffenders/keeping people locked up for ever.

I would say reoffending rate is the most important. People change and people are put in situations, just look at young people with crap parents, you know full well they will be criminals at the age of 1 day old. People hate this thought though.

. There are some people you just can't rehabilitate, they're just nasty - for whatever reason - and you can't get that out of them.
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There system doesn't state otherwise, they still have reoffending rates and they can still be locked up in-defiantly.

The other week I witnessed a mother send their kid into tesco, can of only been around 6, they scooped up a arms full of bounty and left and got back in their mums car. What chance has this kid got. Guard said this is reasonably normal these days.
 
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Glaucus said:
Well it clearly doesn't as they have the lowest reoffending rates.
And how is it luck?
Yes it could work over here, no reason why it wouldn't.
The public would never allow it though.

What's more important? Punishment or reoffending rate and long term cost or housing reoffenders/keeping people locked up for ever.
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Well, by luck I mean that the people they've imprisoned just so happen to be the kind of people who can be rehabilitated. It's quite possible the opposite could have happened. I know it didn't, but it's a possibility.

You also have to factor in that the country and economic situation isn't the same in Norway, there are no job shortages at all compared to the UK. Just as one example.
 
Robbo said:
Well, by luck I mean that the people they've imprisoned just so happen to be the kind of people who can be rehabilitated. It's quite possible the opposite could have happened. I know it didn't, but it's a possibility.

.
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Well no it isn't. They have both types in prison, exactly the same as us. It isn't luck at all.
 
Glaucus said:
Well no it isn't. They have both types in prison, exactly the same as us. It isn't luck at all.
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But as I said in my second sentence, there are many other differences that could mean a carbon copy of the system wouldn't work the same way if tested in the UK. It would be interesting to see though, but as you said - the Daily Mail would be all over it.
 
Don't people complain enough already that our prisons are already too much like that?
That many people don't see it as a punishment, but an inconvenience to their schedule of breaking the law.
 
Robbo said:
But as I said in my second sentence, there are many other differences that could mean a carbon copy of the system wouldn't work the same way if tested in the UK. It would be interesting to see though, but as you said - the Daily Mail would be all over it.
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Yes there are differences, but there is no reason why it wouldn't work. You should still end up with lower reoffending even with those differences. Things like jobs would just reduce the effectiveness as people might not have a choice. But even that's kind of stupid as we have a sufficient benefits system.
 
Robbo said:
Well, by luck I mean that the people they've imprisoned just so happen to be the kind of people who can be rehabilitated. It's quite possible the opposite could have happened. I know it didn't, but it's a possibility.

You also have to factor in that the country and economic situation isn't the same in Norway, there are no job shortages at all compared to the UK. Just as one example.
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Well they did say there is a criteria for acceptance to the prison, mainly that they want to live a crime free life on release. Still, I don't think it's luck, even though the numbers are relatively small compared to larger countries they're not small enough to be a complete fluke.

I guess you just have to look at America's method of chucking people on prison and throwing away the key vs Norway's method and relative re-offending rates.

Although as you say, the standard of living in Norway is higher than most places so having these sorts of prisons may not go down well with the general public when it could be argued a lot of people are living in worse conditions than the prisoners.

I guess it depends if you want short term pain (for the prisoners) or long term gain for society.
 
Norway is modelled on our system as part of their prison officer training they spend time over here. I know I met a load of them when I was a prison officer. Also in Norway its a graduate job, over here they will take anyone dumb enough to do it, they dont want free thinkers and most prison staff I have met here are in it for the power, part of why I left to actually do something worthwhile
 
It takes three years to train to be a prison guard in Norway. She looks at me with disbelief when I tell her that in the UK prison officer training is just six weeks
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Instead of wings and landings they lived in small "pod" communities within the prison, limiting the spread of the corrosive criminal prison subculture that dominates traditionally designed prisons.
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I think our system can learn the most from these two aspects of the Norwegian system.
 
I believe criminals are mostly, ill educated and they choose a life of crime because they are frustrated with their inability to gain anything from the system!! Criminals should be forced to learn whilst in jail and gain the ability to shorten their sentence with higher grades and multiple courses or trades.

It's the give a man a fish scenario.
 
It depends if you see prison as punishment or an opportunity to rehabilitate.

The UK has the Daily Mail so neither route will be successful.
 
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