Change of Company Policy - notice period

Gackt · 28 Feb 2013 at 17:51

A letter has gone up at work saying that facial/surface piercings are against company policy and they must be removed or face disciplinary action. This is despite me having my nose ring in (a larger one before I changed it to a small discreet one once it had healed) for over 3 months. I even had two lip piercings at one point.

I've checked the company policy folder, and there's no mention of piercings of any kind.

Do they have to give a minimum notice period, as I'm sure they can't simply change policy at whim? They've stated that it's already part of the policy and are threatening disciplinary action for something that doesn't exist, is that too allowed?

I don't want to take it out, and I'm willing to hide it with a retainer, but I'm not happy with the way they've gone about this. (Oh and I've had no complaints from the public about it, and in fact I've had more people talk to me and had compliments since having it done)

Castiel · 28 Feb 2013 at 17:55

They have to give 90 days notice of any change to a contractual or mutual agreement, however I suspect that your contract and/or the company handbook/policy includes a general appearance clause and this would reasonably include such things as piercings even if it is not implicitly stated.

You are on a loser here as you can be reasonably expected simply remove the piercing while at work and it would almost certainly be deemed unreasonable if you refused in any grievance or tribunal.

What do you do?

Tobes · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:03

Where I worked decided to change or should I say add a policy in tattoos on arms need to be covered over so a long sleeve shirt must be worn. Me and the other staff didn't bother as we didn't have any offensive tattoos (Space Invader, think of the children!) and it was just too hot to work in a long sleeve shirt.

They nag but if enough people won't do it then are they really going to punish everyone and have to find new staff? I know in this time it's a stupid thing to probably say but come on people we need to get over this stigma of tattoos and piercings. The longer people can't get over it the bigger the uproar will happen eventually.

doofer · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:06

Tell them you're converting to Hinduism and waiting on a gender re-assignment treatment and you wear it for religious reasons.

Gackt · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:24

Castiel said:
They have to give 90 days notice of any change to a contractual or mutual agreement, however I suspect that your contract and/or the company handbook/policy includes a general appearance clause and this would reasonably include such things as piercings even if it is not implicitly stated.

You are on a loser here as you can be reasonably expected simply remove the piercing while at work and it would almost certainly be deemed unreasonable if you refused in any grievance or tribunal.

What do you do?

Well, we don't have any mention of general appearance in the company policies. And we have never been given an employee handbook that specifies anything at all. (Quite unusual really)

Essentially, I am a contractor for a company employed by a client. And it's the client who has requested the change. From speaking to some people in the business, it seems that they simply change policy at whim and refuse me working on the site. (So I'd be refused at the site, potentially be disciplined for not following client procedures, but have to be given work at another site).

I'm guessing this bypasses their obligation to give me 90 days notice?

They nag but if enough people won't do it then are they really going to punish everyone and have to find new staff? I know in this time it's a stupid thing to probably say but come on people we need to get over this stigma of tattoos and piercings. The longer people can't get over it the bigger the uproar will happen eventually.

I'm the only one of two people (one who started today and took out their piercing) who has a facial piercing. And I'm right with you on that sentiment.

eatcustard · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:28

Take it out at work, or find another job

Tobes · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:34

That sucks. I worked as a bartender in a family restaurant and while I needed the job I am one that sticks to my guns and would rather loose my job than have the inconvenience of covering up. However saying that I did dye my hair from pink back to a brown to find a new job when I was out of employment (not relevant, didn't lose my job).

I guess it all depends on what you want to do. If you got hired with them in and not told anything then I would speak to your boss and just be like "dude, why the change now?". That's the thing if people say at a interview we require you to cover up tattoos and take out piercings then I know when they call and offer me the job I can decide and take that into account. I thought that was the point in interviews was it was a 2 way thing, the employer see's if he wants you and you see if you want to work for this company. But it has happened before when I have worked for a company after a few weeks and they suddenly bring it up. Strange people.

Castiel · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:38

Gackt said:
Well, we don't have any mention of general appearance in the company policies. And we have never been given an employee handbook that specifies anything at all. (Quite unusual really)

Essentially, I am a contractor for a company employed by a client. And it's the client who has requested the change. From speaking to some people in the business, it seems that they simply change policy at whim and refuse me working on the site. (So I'd be refused at the site, potentially be disciplined for not following client procedures, but have to be given work at another site).

I'm guessing this bypasses their obligation to give me 90 days notice?

Unfortunately things that can negatively impact on their business and can be argued to be reasonable in request such as removing facial piercingly is not really something that you would be able to argue against, as it is a contractual requirement of the client to your employer, it would be the clients policies that would take precedence, so even if your company make no mention of it in their general terms, they can still request it if a client demands it.

I'm the only one of two people (one who started today and took out their piercing) who has a facial piercing. And I'm right with you on that sentiment.

I don't think it is a stigma at all, I have tattoos and have had piercing a, however I would not like client facing staff to show them in the work environment, just like I would not like staff to wear inappropriate clothing.

Surely it isn't unreasonable to simply take out the piercing while at work?

Tom_ed1987 · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:51

Castiel said:
I don't think it is a stigma at all, I have tattoos and have had piercing a, however I would not like client facing staff to show them in the work environment, just like I would not like staff to wear inappropriate clothing.

Surely it isn't unreasonable to simply take out the piercing while at work?

+1

If you are not customer facing they are being a bit unfair imo, but there isn't much you can do.

Rotty · 28 Feb 2013 at 18:57

as said they need to give 90 days before they can enforce it

If they say is is already part of policy then ask then to show you the existing policy

dirtychinchilla · 28 Feb 2013 at 19:16

I would tell them that they're discriminating against you and just wear a retainer. These retainers are barely noticeable, right?

Rotty · 28 Feb 2013 at 19:22

dirtychinchilla said:
I would tell them that they're discriminating against you and just wear a retainer. These retainers are barely noticeable, right?

on what grounds are they discrimination if the policy applies to everyone ?

dirtychinchilla · 28 Feb 2013 at 19:27

They're discriminating against those who have piercings at the moment, surely. He says there are only two people at work who this applies to, including himself.

Rotty · 28 Feb 2013 at 19:36

dirtychinchilla said:
They're discriminating against those who have piercings at the moment, surely. He says there are only two people at work who this applies to, including himself.

There's no legal grounding for discrimination for that reason, they can do what they want

There's a list of things that you can't discriminate against, that isn't one of them

dirtychinchilla · 28 Feb 2013 at 19:44

Fair enough, I didn't know they had an official list.

holymonk · 28 Feb 2013 at 20:22

Put in a crucifix, you will be ok on religious grounds!

dowie · 28 Feb 2013 at 21:10

Gackt said:
Essentially, I am a contractor for a company employed by a client. And it's the client who has requested the change. From speaking to some people in the business, it seems that they simply change policy at whim and refuse me working on the site. (So I'd be refused at the site, potentially be disciplined for not following client procedures, but have to be given work at another site).

I think if a client you're conducting billable work for has requested it then you'd be silly to kick up a fuss...

If you weren't working on site and it was some internal office policy then that's a bit different and perhpas worth pushing back on slightly.

Cupra · 1 Mar 2013 at 03:35

I wouldn't employ someone with facial piercings or tatoos that couldn't be covered up.
People should think about these things before getting them.

MrMoonX · 1 Mar 2013 at 07:41

Cupra said:
I wouldn't employ someone with facial piercings or tatoos that couldn't be covered up.
People should think about these things before getting them.

This +1

plus you probably look silly anyway. People need to realise that tatoo's and piercings are fine, but they should be in places that can be covered up for work, it just doesnt look professional at all.

Maundie · 1 Mar 2013 at 08:44

MrMoonX said:
This +1

plus you probably look silly anyway. People need to realise that tatoo's and piercings are fine, but they should be in places that can be covered up for work, it just doesnt look professional at all.

Completely agree, when I had my tattoos I had them in areas that could be covered by trousers and short sleeve shirts, now occasionaly my sleeve will rise up and reveal my 'art' but it isn't always on show.