Anyone tried the newer VA panels?

NirK · 4 Mar 2013 at 07:17

I noticed there are a few 24" and 27" AMVA panels out recently which have decent response times (well compared to older MVA screens, pretty much comparable to some IPS screens)... Also they have pretty good colour once calibrated, low input lag, decent viewing angles and contrast ratio which completely blows away IPS and TN at around 3000:1.....

Has anyone tried any of these newer VA panels? Especially interested to hear from anyone who has had experience with IPS screens vs the newer VA screens... They look like the most promising technology IMO if they can get the response times even better over the next year or so they have none of the flaws of TN / IPS such as white glow, bad contrast, bad colour on TN etc. as well as black levels / contrast that are MUCH better than IPS and TN panels.

PC users seem to rave about IPS screens and also 120hz TN but really both of these technologies are severely lacking in a few ways, mainly contrast ratio / black levels. IPS are good for photo editing and professional work but not really that good for games and TN are alright for fast paced gaming with 120hz and fast response times but the actual image quality is bad. I have a good IPS monitor at the moment but the contrast ratio and also not great performacne in low ambient light makes me want something better.

Baddass · 4 Mar 2013 at 08:38

some of the newer VA panels have made improvements in response times (the BenQ GW2450HM was one of the first really to make significant progress). The remaining issue with VA though is the viewing angles. They aren't as wide as IPS and show quite noticeable gamma shift as you move your line of sight. There is also the off-centre contrast shift inherant to VA matrcies, meaning details in dark scenes can get crushed as you view head on, and appear as you move slightly to the side. That's down to the pixel structure of VA panels, and is one of the main reasons why IPS is still very widely regarded and used in most professional range displays

NirK · 4 Mar 2013 at 09:07

Yes but I am talking about gaming display not professional colour critical work.... We have established that IPS is best for colour critical, photo editing etc. but still IPS has bad contrast and IPS white glow.... The viewing angle on VA is still better than TN and if you are just sitting infront of the screen playing games on it, it should be fine ?

I am looking at a screen for gaming and desktop use, not colour critical professional use... Are the viewing angles OK for this? eg. sat directly infront of the screen playing games...

I have a Sony SPVA TV screen infront of me now and the viewing angles are fine IMO... Are the BenQ AMVA from AU electronics a lot worse?

si9973 · 4 Mar 2013 at 10:35

I got the Benq GW2750HM last week. Very good so far. Gaming seems good, although I only really play Arma2, GTL and the occasional Far Cry 3 sesh, colour and vibrancy are really impressive, handles blu ray and TV well. It is 'only' 1080p but I really can't see this as a drawback, considering it hovers around the £200 mark it's a bit of a bargain in my opinion.

There is some gamma shift when viewing at the extremes of the horizontal viewing angles but not as bad as I imagined. I did own an HP LP2275W, which if I remember was an IPS panel. Trying to be objective I'd say the HP had better colour reproduction but in every other way I'm liking the Benq at the moment.

NirK · 4 Mar 2013 at 10:47

Is the gamma shift noticable in normal viewing?

eg. Sat 1ft away from the screen directly infront of it playing games.... Do you notice any gamma shift at the top and bottom of the screen for example when sat directly infront of it 1ft away?

According to the review on TFT central the colour accuracy on those out of the box is quite bad but if you invest in a calibrator they actually get very good results.... Pretty much as good as IPS colour accuracy (except the viewing angles)

I was thinking that for the price of an IPS you could get a 27" AMVA panel and a calibrator. Also the 1080p is not as good as 1440p but at least you can actually run games without having SLI top end graphics cards! 1440p is very nice but it is not just a monitor you need but another £300 graphics card as well!

The other thing I am interested in is the motion.... How does it compare to an IPS screen? Do you notice any trails or blurring? Apparently these new AMVA screens are not too bad in this area... This was the main reason that they were not very good in the past...

si9973 · 4 Mar 2013 at 10:51

In my experience so far, no. I sit about 3 feet away and don't notice anything untoward. It does take a bit of setting up out of the box but there are plenty of guides available through google and a couple of profiles and guides on tftcentral.

If you go looking for it then there is some motion blur, I've set the monitor to 'Premium' and can't really see much blur going on, compared to my old HP it responds very well and input lag appears minimal in comparison. Saying that I dare say the newer IPS 27" panels would be better but I can't really afford one.

NirK · 4 Mar 2013 at 11:15

The newer IPS are probably better for response time, colour accuracy and viewing angles but then the VA screens have 3000:1 contrast and far better blacks.

800:1 contrast + IPS white glow = Bad contrast and bad blacks.

si9973 · 4 Mar 2013 at 11:26

Yeah, there is that. First real test I gave my monitor was watching the Daytona 500 in HD. Vibrant colours and no noticeable blur on the faster camera pans. So, yeah, as an all round monitor I'm very happy with it

Baddass · 4 Mar 2013 at 11:32

NirK said:
Yes but I am talking about gaming display not professional colour critical work.... We have established that IPS is best for colour critical, photo editing etc. but still IPS has bad contrast and IPS white glow.... The viewing angle on VA is still better than TN and if you are just sitting infront of the screen playing games on it, it should be fine ?

I am looking at a screen for gaming and desktop use, not colour critical professional use... Are the viewing angles OK for this? eg. sat directly infront of the screen playing games...

I have a Sony SPVA TV screen infront of me now and the viewing angles are fine IMO... Are the BenQ AMVA from AU electronics a lot worse?

I was more making the point that VA still has weaknesses as the opening post seemed to suggest that there weren't any weaknesses left once response times had been addressed, or at least that's how i read it

apart from the noticeable gamma shift as you change your line or sight, the other issue (off-centre contrast shift) is actually a problem if you are looking head on at the screen. if you're head on, some darker content detail can be lost and only appears as you mvoe slightly away from a central position. So for dark gaming that could be a problem

PVA and MVA very similar in this regard, but could be some differences between desktop monitors and TV's

NirK · 4 Mar 2013 at 12:23

Hmmm I have never noticed any problems with my 40" sony SPVA screen with contrast shift etc. Maybe the AUO AMVA screens are worse for this I don't know... Nobody still answered my question of whether this is actually visable when viewing the screen straight on?

I was not suggesting that AMVA has no problems... I think it is clear that IPS cannot be beaten for viewing angles and consistancy... It is just that I have always ignored MVA panels due to the abysmal response times.... It seems this is improving recently though and maybe we will even see some 120hz AMVA with faster response times soon.

I think it is the LCD technology with the most potential because however good TN and IPS can get they are always stuck with mediocre contrast ratio / black levels and the other issues such as colour shift on TN and white glow on IPS etc.... Once you have played on a Sony SPVA TV or a Plasma, it makes the contrast ratio on the TN and IPS seem a bit poor.

Baddass · 4 Mar 2013 at 14:43

the issue with "black crush" (as it's sometimes called) with viewing angles on VA is apparent only when viewing head on, so yes, that could be a problem. It will be different on TV's to desktop monitors i expect, but you may not find it an issue. Some people do though for dark content. For example there's a simple test where if you view a very dark grey font on a black background, the font disappears completely when viewed head on, but as you move slightly to the side it emerges from the shadows

Agree you won't beat VA contrast ratios at the moment, although remember there was a time when they didn't really offer anything over about 900 - 1200:1 static CR. Maybe one day we will see improvements with IPS / PLS panels, some can reach about 1200:1 now which is a step forward (Dell U2913WM for instance). The white glow from an angle is annoying (used ot be purple on older S-IPS panels) but can be overcome with things like A-TW polarizers if manufacturers are willing to invest in them.

NirK · 4 Mar 2013 at 14:50

I have a NEC 20wgx2 IPS and the glow is sort of red and also a bit white.... I had a HP24" IPS for a while and the IPS white glow on that was appaling... That went back due to the horrible IPS white glow and also colour tinting... It seems the NEC I have is actually better then most of the new screens, even though it is 5 years old, except for the rubbish 20" size...

Seems they used to have polarizers but now they don't... I think this is due to a) cost and b) worse colour accuracy with polarizer as IPS are mainly for colour work. I doubt we will ever see A-TW polarizers again sadly.

I quite like my current screen and the opticlear coating combined with the dynamic contrast thing makes it bearable but still when I play anything on my SPVA TV which has a 4000:1 contrast the blacks and general vibrancy of the colours is just much better.

I suppose 1200:1 on that IPS is alright... But most are about 850:1 which is not great and combned with the white glow which seems to be actually getting worse on newer panels they are not ideal at the moment.