Anyone ever become an atheist after believing?

Hodders said:
Oh come on - did I say all religious people - no. Your average C of E churchgoer member is harmless (deluded but harmless).

Also I am not referring exclusively to male circumcision (of which only a small %age is medically necessary). Full female circumcision is far more barbaric and damaging and is also promoted through faiths and beliefs.

No I cannot 'respect' those beliefs and to be honest neither should anyone. They should be shouted down and pointed out as evil.
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See, this is what I mean and it is why I gave you a flippant response.

If you were to engage in an honest and frank debate about genital mutilation, I'd have gone to greater lengths than snipping a quote from Wikipedia, but instead you go on about people being delusional and painting this picture of religion advocating the practice.

Nowhere in Jewish religious scripture is the practice of FGM mentioned, let alone suggested or commanded. This is the same for Christianity. The Qu'ran does not command it either and it's practice is largely cultural, rather than religious. As is so commonly the case, these extreme and abhorrent practices are not based in religion, but by the people who profess it and take its name to further their own unpleasant agendas.
 
Kamwah said:
If I could explain it to you then I would but it's hard to do so. There are spiritual things which someone who is an Atheist would just look at me and think I'm crazy and tbh I don't blame you.

Well there are still polytheist religions today, isn't Hinduism one? I don't see why you have something against monotheism, the only problem I see is people trying to constantly shove it down your throat, thankfully I don't know anyone like that.
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It's not the pantheists I am referring to really; it's those who don't define their God as anything, I suppose. I could accept, with strong evidence, that there is some sort of higher power (very very strong evidence), but would never be able to accept without such evidence that one of the religions in existence today is correct. They are all human concepts generated without any actual knowledge, as far as I'm concerned, of the truth. All it could take is a couple of wrong sentences somewhere to change how a religion functions.

The problem with a monotheistic religion is that no one religion is correct, but other religions don't acknowledge this. It's interesting that you can't explain why you know that your religion is correct though; I expect this is something you develop after some time believing and following that religion...
 
dirtychinchilla said:
It's not the pantheists I am referring to really; it's those who don't define their God as anything, I suppose. I could accept, with strong evidence, that there is some sort of higher power (very very strong evidence), but would never be able to accept without such evidence that one of the religions in existence today is correct. They are all human concepts generated without any actual knowledge, as far as I'm concerned, of the truth. All it could take is a couple of wrong sentences somewhere to change how a religion functions.

The problem with a monotheistic religion is that no one religion is correct, but other religions don't acknowledge this. It's interesting that you can't explain why you know that your religion is correct though; I expect this is something you develop after some time believing and following that religion...
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It is spiritual, it's a common debate among Christians on whether an Atheist or Agnostic can pick up the Bible and understand it and be able to understand what parts are meant to be taken in a spiritual way.

There are plenty of scientific books which support the claims made by the Bible (OT and NT) like the flood but then there are also many books for the against argument. It's a very interesting thing to research into even if you're not interested in religion at all.
 
Kamwah said:
It is spiritual, it's a common debate among Christians on whether an Atheist or Agnostic can pick up the Bible and understand it and be able to understand what parts are meant to be taken in a spiritual way.

There are plenty of scientific books which support the claims made by the Bible (OT and NT) like the flood but then there are also many books for the against argument. It's a very interesting thing to research into even if you're not interested in religion at all.
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Very much depends on how you define "scientific" and "spiritual". I can only half make sense of your post by making those definitions very loose/vague, so much so that they lose their meaning
 
fluffmct said:
Very much depends on how you define "scientific" and "spiritual". I can only half make sense of your post by making those definitions very loose/vague, so much so that they lose their meaning
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Well my belief is spiritual, something that won't make any sense to someone who isn't spiritual other than them thinking it's a guess.

Scientific books are those that use a scientific method to theorize that it could have happened and then go on to look at the supposed evidence of it happening.

(I guess my last post should've had the lines switched round so you could tell which was a reply to what he said)
 
Kamwah said:
It is spiritual, it's a common debate among Christians on whether an Atheist or Agnostic can pick up the Bible and understand it and be able to understand what parts are meant to be taken in a spiritual way.

There are plenty of scientific books which support the claims made by the Bible (OT and NT) like the flood but then there are also many books for the against argument. It's a very interesting thing to research into even if you're not interested in religion at all.
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Excuse me if I'm wrong, but basically it's indoctrination which leads to the apparent knowledge that your religion is correct. You'd have the same feeling no matter what religion you were part of; if you were a Muslim you'd think that was the true religion. Am I right?

Hmm, those are probably dubious books written by scientists with an agenda.

I was in Cambridge with a friend who studied at university there about two years ago, and this chap was preaching in the street and had some sort of helper. We stood there for a bit as he preached his hatred (he was a Christian extremist and, as far as I'm concerned, not a true representation of Christianity) and he had a helper, this old chap. This chap came up to us and started talking to us about his religious stuff, and then told me he was a professor of Thermodynamics at The University of Leeds. I'd gone to Leeds and studied Thermodynamics and he was not present on the staff, and it turned out he was a disgraced professor that the uni has distanced itself from. I then saw him on one of those Sunday morning programmes (the replacement of The Big Questions in its interim) claiming to still be a professor and making up stuff about what he thought was correct to fit his religious theories. These are the kind of people that probably write these books. Don't take them as truth, because people have an agenda; true scientists don't.
 
Kamwah said:
There are plenty of scientific books which support the claims made by the Bible (OT and NT) like the flood but then there are also many books for the against argument. It's a very interesting thing to research into even if you're not interested in religion at all.
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There are no scientific books that support a global flood.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but basically it's indoctrination which leads to the apparent knowledge that your religion is correct. You'd have the same feeling no matter what religion you were part of; if you were a Muslim you'd think that was the true religion. Am I right?

Hmm, those are probably dubious books written by scientists with an agenda.

I was in Cambridge with a friend who studied at university there about two years ago, and this chap was preaching in the street and had some sort of helper. We stood there for a bit as he preached his hatred (he was a Christian extremist and, as far as I'm concerned, not a true representation of Christianity) and he had a helper, this old chap. This chap came up to us and started talking to us about his religious stuff, and then told me he was a professor of Thermodynamics at The University of Leeds. I'd gone to Leeds and studied Thermodynamics and he was not present on the staff, and it turned out he was a disgraced professor that the uni has distanced itself from. I then saw him on one of those Sunday morning programmes (the replacement of The Big Questions in its interim) claiming to still be a professor and making up stuff about what he thought was correct to fit his religious theories. These are the kind of people that probably write these books. Don't take them as truth, because people have an agenda; true scientists don't.
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I have not been indoctrinated, I have never been to Church, I have no Christian family members or any Christian friends. I am the rare one among the religious, the one who came of his own free will.

If you want to believe everyone is so crazy then go ahead. There are plenty of books on the subject but I don't really care whether the flood happened or not, that's Jewish scripture and it doesn't change anything I believe.


RDM said:
There are no scientific books that support a global flood.
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You are incorrect.
 
asim18 said:
I used to completely believe in God. But then as I grew older, the main thing which made me lose faith in him was:

He decides to give us humans five senses, right? So when any of these senses are triggered you know automatically that what triggered them is 100% real and exists for sure. You see something, you hear something, you feel etc. and you know it's there for real.

So WHY OH WHY, does he decide to exclaim his existence in the form of literature? Limited to only those who can understand Arabic. Couldn't this omnipotent God see that half the goddamned population is illiterate let alone able to understand his frankly incomprehensible and complex teachings? I mean you have Muslims who completely misinterpret his teachings and go on to murder innocent brothers for goodness sake. What sort of God couldn't see that coming?

Every thread of logic in my brain tells me that God doesn't exist.
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Yep.
 
Theophany said:
See, this is what I mean and it is why I gave you a flippant response.

If you were to engage in an honest and frank debate about genital mutilation, I'd have gone to greater lengths than snipping a quote from Wikipedia, but instead you go on about people being delusional and painting this picture of religion advocating the practice.

Nowhere in Jewish religious scripture is the practice of FGM mentioned, let alone suggested or commanded. This is the same for Christianity. The Qu'ran does not command it either and it's practice is largely cultural, rather than religious. As is so commonly the case, these extreme and abhorrent practices are not based in religion, but by the people who profess it and take its name to further their own unpleasant agendas.
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I accept that FGM is not a Jewish practise. But it *is* carried out in large parts of the world and it is supported by many Islamic communities. It is very difficult to separate religous teaching and cultural practise. But let's agree that if Islamic teaching was as clear about FGM as it was about some stupid cartoons it would be an improvement.

But - and how can there be a defense for this - the vast majority of male circumcision is practised for religious reasons. You are mutilating a child because your God tells you to.

We used to burn "witches" and bury horses heads under houses. It is time that the world 'grows up' and believes in humanity, reason and compassion. Not mumbo-jumbo and ridiculous ideas of gods and the supernatural.
 
Hodders said:
I accept that FGM is not a Jewish practise. But it *is* carried out in large parts of the world and it is supported by many Islamic communities. It is very difficult to separate religous teaching and cultural practise. But let's agree that if Islamic teaching was as clear about FGM as it was about some stupid cartoons it would be an improvement.

But - and how can there be a defense for this - the vast majority of male circumcision is practised for religious reasons. You are mutilating a child because your God tells you to.

We used to burn "witches" and bury horses heads under houses. It is time that the world 'grows up' and believes in humanity, reason and compassion. Not mumbo-jumbo and ridiculous ideas of gods and the supernatural.
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Still ignoring the large number of people that do so for no religious reason.

asim18 said:
I used to completely believe in God. But then as I grew older, the main thing which made me lose faith in him was:

He decides to give us humans five senses, right? So when any of these senses are triggered you know automatically that what triggered them is 100% real and exists for sure. You see something, you hear something, you feel etc. and you know it's there for real.

So WHY OH WHY, does he decide to exclaim his existence in the form of literature? Limited to only those who can understand Arabic. Couldn't this omnipotent God see that half the goddamned population is illiterate let alone able to understand his frankly incomprehensible and complex teachings? I mean you have Muslims who completely misinterpret his teachings and go on to murder innocent brothers for goodness sake. What sort of God couldn't see that coming?

Every thread of logic in my brain tells me that God doesn't exist.
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That's a problem with Islam, not religion or God.
 
Kamwah said:
I have not been indoctrinated, I have never been to Church, I have no Christian family members or any Christian friends. I am the rare one among the religious, the one who came of his own free will.

If you want to believe everyone is so crazy then go ahead. There are plenty of books on the subject but I don't really care whether the flood happened or not, that's Jewish scripture and it doesn't change anything I believe.
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Fair enough, man. Sorry if there seemed to be any animosity in my post; it certainly wasn't meant that way. I'm just trying to understand.

You are rare among the religious, though. However, you are indoctrinated in the sense that you belong to a religion, but I see your point.

I'm not saying everyone is crazy, but I'd like to see their evidence for this giant flood.
 
Whats the one where you don't believe in any specific religion, mainly believe in scientific theory/evolution e.t.c but still don't discount the existant of a higher being (simply because Science still doesnt have answers to all questions)?

Because i am that one.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Fair enough, man. Sorry if there seemed to be any animosity in my post; it certainly wasn't meant that way. I'm just trying to understand.

You are rare among the religious, though. However, you are indoctrinated in the sense that you belong to a religion, but I see your point.

I'm not saying everyone is crazy, but I'd like to see their evidence for this giant flood.
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That's fine, I don't really like the word indoctrinated because that tends to follow some connotation of forced or being controlled. Anyhow we can all laugh at the crazy Christians who are like lemmings walking off a cliff XD

I'd say I'm a rare one as there aren't many Sola scriptura Christians out there.
 
Kamwah said:
That's fine, I don't really like the word indoctrinated because that tends to follow some connotation of forced or being controlled. Anyhow we can all laugh at the crazy Christians who are like lemmings walking off a cliff XD
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Haha well, as far as I'm concerned, anyone believing in a religion is indoctrinated. This is the point I was trying to make about panthiesm; from a more scientific perspective, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to believe in one religion as opposed to just believing in a higher power, because we know that the religions are human concepts.

I tend to cradle my head in my hands more than laugh!
 
Jesus Christ is the saviour and redeemer of mankind. He alone fulfilled all the ancient messianic prophecies, and the prophecies said he would do all this BEFORE the second temple was destroyed. That was destroyed over 1900 years ago so if Jesus isn't the Son of God then there can be none. Jesus came onto the scene just at the right moment. And we are now seeing the fulfilment of Christ's prophecies. The world is all heading for a final showdown. You only need to look around you to see this happening. I mean, in the last century, false religions, false cults, false prophets, false teachers have literally exploded. Again just as Jesus said would happen. This is all no coincidence.

And as for you Hodders with your stupid remark, are you completely unaware that abuse of animals still occurs? It's got nothing to do with reason and more to do with the fact that some people just wish to do evil. They want no part of God and wish to be their own Gods. But they won't get very far.
 
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