Anyone ever become an atheist after believing?

Jason2 said:
I follow Christ and he alone claimed to be of God. I do not claim to know the will of God through my own understanding, but rather from the teachings of Christ. If Christ was a fraud, then I too am, just as the apostle Paul said, and we are all condemned for claiming to be representatives of God.
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Not necessarily, the Pauline Epistles are Paul's theology after all, not Christ's...Christ was Gods sacrifice to all Mankind, not only Christian's so it follows that all mankind is able to receive the Grace of his Salvation, as that Salvation is Gods mercy sent to all mankind by Christ dying on the Cross.

You are trying to state that unless an individual professes to Christ that he or she will be excluded from that Salvation given to all mankind....is that not a little presumptive?
 
Jason2 said:
The point is, we are all born with the original sin, and all are unworthy in the sight of God.
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I'm pretty sure that's just the storyline of Final Fantasy 10. Christians didn't play Blitzball though (probably).
 
Conscript said:
Study of ethics? Instinct? I think most people are able to make an ethical, moral decision without the need for referring to religious teaching. To claim that it would be necessary is arrogance in itself.

How do you know that religious teachings are morally correct?
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I do not claim religious teachings are morally correct, but rather the teachings of Christ are. He is the promised messiah, the one who would come and give his life to make us right with God, or as Isaiah 53 says a "guilt offering" to take away our sins. The bible also says anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar and truth is not him in, so if you claim you do not need the grace of God then you are a liar.
 
Jason2 said:
Do you believe morals are objective or not?
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I'm not quite sure I understand how to answer that.

I'm just a little wary of anyone who defends the need of religion to lay down a moral code. Especially when you consider some religious views towards homosexuals. Do you really think that advocating the execution of someone for their private sexual views is an acceptable moral stance, for example.
 
Jason2 said:
But how do you know your version of right and wrong is the correct one?
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You could ask the same question of yourself. Most religions insist that theirs is the "One true God" yet all have different versions of what their God expects of them. You could have chosen the wrong one! Or at least be following the teachings of the wrong prophet. Plus around the time of Jesus, that particular part of civilisation was knee deep in prophets all with their own view of "Gods word"

If there is only "One true God" why is the not only a single religion? If he allegedly created the world in 7 days, putting his flock right on that one should be childs play.

"Pope Benedict XVI gave an emotional farewell speech to tens of thousands of faithful in St Peter’s Square, saying there were times during his eight-year papacy “when it seemed that the Lord was sleeping.”

Maybe he wasn't sleeping, just never there in the first place.
 
Castiel said:
Not necessarily, the Pauline Epistles are Paul's theology after all, not Christ's...Christ was Gods sacrifice to all Mankind, not only Christian's so it follows that all mankind is able to receive the Grace of his Salvation, as that Salvation is Gods mercy sent to all mankind by Christ dying on the Cross.

You are trying to state that unless an individual professes to Christ that he or she will be excluded from that Salvation given to all mankind....is that not a little presumptive?
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Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, and indeed it is bold claim, but a claim that Jesus himself made. He said it in John 8:24: "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins." So either Jesus was a liar or he's telling the truth. I choose to believe the latter.
 
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Jason2 said:
I do not claim religious teachings are morally correct, but rather the teachings of Christ are.
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This is religion in a nut shell. :rolleyes:

Jason2 said:
He is the promised messiah, the one who would come and give his life to make us right with God
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I dont get how you believe this will happen?

Jason2 said:
The bible also says anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar and truth is not him in, so if you claim you do not need the grace of God then you are a liar.
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The same bible says:

You shall not wear combined fibers, wool and linen together...

Do i really need to validate anything here? We can always ask the talking snake..
 
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Jason2 said:
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, and indeed it is bold claim, but a claim that Jesus himself made. He said it in John 8:24: "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins." So either Jesus was a liar or he's telling the truth, I choose to believe the latter.
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The Bible also says "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

So are we to now advocate the killing of people who's only crime is their private sexual preference because the Bible says so? Of course not, it's barbaric. The point therefore, is that the Bible is hardly a shining example of progressive morals.

I think it's fairly obvious which version of right and wrong is the correct one in the above example. Hint: it's the one which doesn't advocate slaughtering people based on nothing but their sexual preference.
 
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Conscript said:
The Bible also says "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

So are we to now advocate the killing of people who's only crime is their private sexual preference because the Bible says so? Of course not, it's barbaric. The point therefore, is that the Bible is hardly a shining example of progressive morals.
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Is that in the new testament?
 
I was an aethiest, but since I've learnt a lot and took in a lot since i've become more interested in science etc. I am now an agnostic.

I still do not like the idea of religion somewhat, it's created by us and much of it to me is completely crazy, or in some cases just plain stupid. However who's to say there isn't a creator. That's what we will never know, so you can't dismiss it, nor state it as fact.
 
Castiel said:
I hate it when that happens. :(
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To sum up. I think thought is at least 4 dimensional. We only think some propositions are in contradiction. God does exist - God doesn't exist. But thats if you treat thought/propositional language like uhmmmmm say draw two dots on a piece of paper....draw arrows to show them about to collide (you can look at a proposition to see if it is in direct opposition to its counterpart) BUT heres the fancy bit....add in another dimension and BAZINGA! the two propositions you thought created a paradox if both existed at the same time...indeed in actual fact dont because both exist in different dimensions.

Its like that with believers in God and non-believers in God.
(Or i can bias it the other way to rational people and raving loony pink elephant folk haha)

Every way you want to slice it...all propositions are valid. Its a journey you see ....listen to this man..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7bcxBf2vK4

skip to 1:10 where he finds a point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XDYDiDrTFY

and this one.
 
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Jason2 said:
Atheists: "I'm good because I'm a good human being". The arrogance of it. How do you know your way is the "good" way? You're assuming authority.
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Ahh this is interesting hehe.... i remember this from my old greek philosophy studies

Ahem....


Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"

I expect your answer to be at minimum be of 15,000 word length thanks :)
 
Surfer said:
Ahh this is interesting hehe.... i remember this from my old greek philosophy studies

Ahem....


Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"

I expect your answer to be at minimum be of 15,000 word length thanks :)
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Theists will argue neither. The euthyphro dilemma has been given various responses by philosophers.
 
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